Spider Vein Remedies

| Modified on Oct 07, 2023
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Characterized by sprawling web-like veins beneath the skin, spider veins are often found on the face, neck, upper arms and thighs. While the condition is harmless to one’s health, many individuals desire treatment for cosmetic reasons. Many home remedies can be applied with results similar to that of more expensive and invasive treatments.

What are Spider Veins?

Spider veins typically manifest as a small round, red spot with tiny red veins radiating outward much like a spider’s legs. The result of chronically dilated capillaries, spider veins can be caused by a variety of factors including excessive alcohol consumption, certain medication, elevated estrogen levels and cirrhosis of the liver. Spider veins often come and go and cause few to no symptoms other than the appearance of the veins.

Natural Remedies for Sprawling Veins

The focus of treatment for spider veins is typically to minimize the appearance of the condition. Several treatment options are available including arnica, hydrogen peroxide and sea salt. These treatments function to actively fade veins and prevent the reoccurrence of the condition.

Arnica

Derived from a flower, arnica is a known treatment option for pain and inflammation associated with bruises, sprains, arthritis and other aches. The compound is a natural anti-inflammatory that also aids in circulation. As such, when applied to the spider veins daily, the compound diminishes their appearance by limiting inflammation.

Hydrogen Peroxide

Hydrogen peroxide is a natural oxidizing agent that eliminates infection and diminishes inflammation. Used as a treatment for spider veins, the substance draws out inflammation-causing toxins and reduces inflammation. The compound also enhances good blood circulation, which can also reduce the appearance of spider veins.

Sea Salt

Salt is a vital component in the body for a variety of functions. A component of good circulation, when taken diluted in water daily, sea salt helps restore balance to the body and maintain the appropriate levels of nutrients in the body. As such, the compound is an important component in treating and preventing spider veins.

While treatment is not often necessary for spider veins, many individuals desire reduction in the appearance of these veins. Natural remedies, including arnica, hydrogen peroxide, sea salt and others, effectively reduce the appearance of veins and support good circulation.


The comments below reflect the personal experiences and opinions of readers and do not represent medical advice or the views of this website. The information shared has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease or health condition. Always consult a qualified healthcare professional for medical concerns.

Apple Cider Vinegar

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Devlin (Toronto, Ontario) on 06/17/2015
★★★★★

Apple Cider Vinegar is such a wonderful product with Mother in it. This product has been a god send to me for ovarian issues to hormone balance, to removing those nasty little spider veins.


Arnica

3 User Reviews
5 star (2) 
  67%
1 star (1) 
  33%

Posted by Gretchen (Los Angeles, Ca, Us) on 09/07/2010

After stumbling across some posts saying that Arnica helped with spider veins I purchased a topical Arnica spray to see if it would help with some spider veins beneath my eyes... I would spray my finger and then lightly dab the area underneath my eyes... I noticed it substantially lessened the spider vein's visibility... Which is great because back when I worked as a real estate agent and had alot of money I spent at least $1000 on IPL (laser) treatments on my face to get rid of them. The IPL would always work for a few months, but they would always creep back... Oh yeah, and it was fairly painful and additionally scarred the skin on my face one time when the young lady applying the IPL became overzealous and cranked the laser strength up much too high... At about $11 for a 4 oz. Bottle, I'd say the Arnica is a bargain, especially as it seems just about as effective as the IPL's were in diminishing the veins! For some reason it never occurred to me to try the Arnica spray on the varicose veins on my legs, but about two weeks ago I finally did. I sprayed the veins down pretty thoroughly, and within a half hour noticed a difference. Over the past two weeks I've been spraying the veins on my legs and other parts of my body with the Arnica on a daily basis and I just can't believe how much they've faded!! They're still visible, don't get me wrong, but I've had both laser treatments and sclerotherapy on my legs which was less effective and MUCH more expensive!! Plus, the sclerotherapy left odd dark marks where the needles had injected the saline that remained all over my legs for a year, and I wasn't able to wear shorts--thanks alot, what was the point in the first place?? I didn't find the laser treatments to be at all effective on my varicose veins, in particular the "deal" I got once for $150. You get what you pay for, really. I had a little more success with a much more expensive laser treatment, but again, the veins always seemed to come back. In two weeks, applying Arnica topically has diminished the appearance of my varicose veins to the point where I'm wearing shorts and looking at my legs all the time! I just can't say how happy I am to be able to wear skirts and shorts without feeling like someone will notice my ugly blue patches!!! Again, I want to make it clear that the veins are still there, just MUCH fainter... Additionally, my varicose veins would not be considered severe by any means, so I don't know how much it would work for someone with very thick and visible veins, but I've had moderate varicose veins on my legs since I was 18 or so... I can't say enough good things about this relatively inexpensive cure, after all of those lousy pocket-stripping cures!!

Replied by Flowerpot
(Kent, Uk)
08/20/2012
★☆☆☆☆

I have been using Arnica cream and oil for weeks on red veins and nothing has happened. Is the spray and tincture different from what I have been using.

Replied by Michael
(Gresham)
05/06/2016

God!!! I want to marry you. I was a hairdresser for 20 plus years. I have very nice shaped legs for a man. But they have been riddled by spider veins. I will try your remedy asap!! Thanks so much for posting. I knew it could be addressed by one's self. Thanks again. Love this site!!

Replied by Diane
(Ashburn Va)
01/23/2017
★★★★★

I started using Arnicare Gel a homeopathic medicine little over a week ago. And I can attest that there is noticeably a difference in the appearance of the spider veins on my legs and thighs.

Twice a day I apply the gel. I am also supplementing with organic sea kelp 500 mg 2 X a day, vitamin D-3, K-2, and trace minerals. Recently started magnesium for cramps in legs. I highly recommend getting a nutritional deficiency test before taking any supplements and consulting with your doctor for drug interaction.


Arnica
Posted by Marina (London, England) on 06/29/2010
★★★★★

I first started developing spider veins on my nose (on the sides of my nostrils and under them) at the age of 8. They became much more prominent with age and i always had to wear concealer to hide the blotchiness.

HOWEVER, I recently had a nose job and had to wear a cast for a week. As the week passed I noticed that the thread veins under my nose (where there was no cast) had considerably diminished, as if they had 'moved up'. Today I got the cast taken off after a week and the veins that were at the sides of my nostrils have COMPLETELY gone despite 15 years of trying to get rid of them through creams and such.

So I am not certain what exactly allowed for this to happen but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Arnica montana homeopathy that I've been taking before and post operation as it thins the blood. So i'm guessing that the arnica and pressure from the cast must have made the blood flow back through my veins over time. Hence they also might come back =S.. but i'm going to take great preventative care of my veins from now on through diet and protection form the external environment like the sun.

So this is exactly what I was prescribed..

Arnica montana 5ch:
3 x 3 (times a day) for 10 days before the operation..

Arnica montana 9ch
3 x 4 times a day every 3 hours.

Advice when taking homeopathy ---

1) Do not touch it with fingers as it reduces its efficacity automatically..

2) Do not swallow or suck it.. let it melt slowly underneath your tongue so that the body absorbs it efficiently...

3) Do not eat or drink anything within 15 minutes before or after ingesting it.

You can ask your pharmacist for advice about this.

Replied by Kelly
(Seattle)
11/16/2021

With all due sincere respect to Marina, it doesn't make sense that if one touches a homeopathic remedy that will 'reduce it's efficacy automatically'. If you put it in your mouth, it's touching the skin of your mouth. Why would the skin of one's fingers affect it's efficacy and not the skin in your mouth? Skin is skin! :)

Art
(California)
11/16/2021
2326 posts

Kelly,

Regarding the reason for not touching the homeopathy pellets with your hands, this is because the active component is thinly adsorbed to the surface of the pellet and the small amount of moisture on your hands is enough to remove some of the active component. This can result in a dose that is too low to be effective.

Typically it is recommended to pour the pellets into the lid of the container and dump the cap under your tongue. Some manufacturers like Boiron have a dispenser that dispenses one pellet at a time into the lid by twisting the lid while still on the bottle. When you can see the proper number of pellets in the lid, you carefully remove them from the container and then dump the contents of the lid under the tongue.

It is important to remember that these pellets contain very small amounts of the active component, so it is important to not touch the pellets, to ensure you are getting an effective dose of the intended remedy.

Once you understand the reason for not touching the pellets with your hands, it makes sense.

Art

Michael
(New Zealand)
11/18/2021

Dear Art,

The following is an almost direct quote from my Homeopath when I showed them your recent posting.

They found it interesting but felt they should pitch in with their own contribution.

This person has had many years of experience I should mention, and have helped my family over the years.

Kind regards,

Michael

"We haven't used pills for ages, we felt there was a better response from liquid formulas under the tongue or in the mouth. However, I'm not suggesting pills don't work. Most people today prefer the sprays. Maybe being easier to use, people medicate better".

Art
(California)
11/18/2021
2326 posts

Hi Michael,

You are in a quite unique position in that you have a good homeopath and friend to work directly with you and your family who has a proven track record. It is similar here, if you are working with a competent homeopath, the good ones will make a custom remedy for the individual cases they deal with, which are generally individual based liquid remedies as opposed to being strictly based on premade remedies, and very effective. Unfortunately, not everyone here in the US has access to a very good homeopath who they can go to, to make a custom homeopathy remedy (liquid), so that leaves us with mostly pills and fewer liquid remedies, but this is what we have to work with here and we have to make do. There are liquid remedies available, but they are far fewer and very limited in selection and reduction levels.

Here we struggle to find good doctors let alone trained homeopaths. Consider yourself very fortunate to have such a friend!

Art

Replied by D
(CO)
06/01/2022

Please - let me warn you - do NOT take Arnica before an operation. It works immediately, or nearly so. Taking its beforehand causes you to TEST the remedy. It cures bruising. So if you don't have any (from dental work or surgery or falls) it will cause that symptom in you. People who took it before dental work ended up with worse bleeding. Just use it afterwards. Only use topically on CLOSED skin, or you will be in great pain,


Essential Oils

1 User Review
1 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Kate (New York) on 04/10/2018
★☆☆☆☆

Hello. I have a patch of spider veins on my inner thigh for years. I have use essential oils in carrier oil to massage, even apple cider vinegar, but no improvement. Your suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.


Exercise

1 User Review
4 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Fooshcat (West Michigan) on 04/17/2014
★★★★☆

More and more we hear that exercise is a factor in preventing all sorts of diseases from cardiovascular to certain types of cancer to Alzheimer's. So, about 4 months ago I started an exercise routine using a light/medium cardio dvd 3-4 days a week. About 6 weeks ago I switched the routine and began rotating between 3 dvds 5 days a week. One dvd involves toning with light weight and lots of reps; another is toning with weights, lots of reps and interval bursts of cardio; the third dvd involves toning circuits, but it moves at such a pace that my heart pumps like it's medium cardio. Each dvd is a good total body workout and each is about an hour long. Today I happened to notice the spider veins that appear on the inside of my ankle and foot area are much less noticeable. The right ankle/foot was worse for some reason and it looks substantially better. The spider veins on the left ankle/foot are now barely noticeable. The only other change I've made recently is to eliminate artificial sweeteners and add more fruit to my diet. I've always eaten fairly healthy - lots of vegetables, the only meat I eat is wild caught fish, and we eat organic when possible. I've taken an eye health supplement for years that contains rutin which is supposed to be good for veins, but that's not new to my routine. My main unhealthy vice in life is wine!

While the exercise doesn't seem to be helping my cellulite (any tips on this would be greatly appreciated! ), it appears to be helping those nasty little squiggly veins. It'll make me feel better about wearing sandals this summer! For reference, I'm 43 years old and about 10 lbs overweight and have an office job that forces me to sit all day.

Replied by Marcia
(Western Australia)
11/01/2015

Coconut oil for cellulite! And pretty much everything! Get an organic extra Virgin one.

Replied by Hallie
(Ks)
08/29/2020

Just wanted to say I used to run, training for marathons even, but when I wasn't training I was pretty sedentary. Plenty of cellulite and I am not overweight. I got a desk job that had me sitting most of the day, and very little if any free time for working out, so I stopped. One day, even though it was a little awkward, I decided to start standing. All day at work. Did that for a few months and noticed a big improvement in cellulite. Almost a year in and my cellulite is basically only on my butt, which I don't care about. As long as I can wear shorts!


Hydrogen Peroxide

2 User Reviews
5 star (2) 
  100%

Posted by Tina (Singapore, Singapore) on 01/25/2009

am curious about the Hydrogen Peroxide for treatment of Varicose veins. How & where do i buy it? Any info on what amount or strength is safe? Cheers, Tina


Hydrogen Peroxide
Posted by Trish (Kansas City, Missouri) on 03/20/2007
★★★★★

I soaked in 4 pints of 3% store-bought hydrogen peroxide last night for about 20 minutes, while I did a little oil pulling, and noticed this morning that the 'veinyness' in my legs isn't as noticeable. Today I decided to be brave and try the inhalation method...I did two different breaths about 20 minutes apart, 4-5 squirts for each, and then laid down for a nap. I slept for an hour and a half and didn't realize I had even fallen asleep until I woke up and saw the time. I don't even feel that good when I taken melatonin at night. And I woke up with lots of energy. I am also doing the apple cider vinegar remedy so my body is quite 'tingly,' and I'm getting headaches...but these are all signs of detoxification as I have done the Master Cleanse before for ten days and had very similar side effects. The ACV will actually take care of detox headaches if mixed with the baking soda and taken on an empty stomach.

Replied by Jeanette
(Santa Rosa)
07/05/2015

I haven't tried hydrogen peroxide yet as a cure for spider veins- did you actually inhale the hydrogen peroxide by squirting it in your nostrils?? Sounds scary! How much peroxide do you mix in how much water to soak in it in a bathtub?. I am trying to get rid of spider veins on my thighs mostly.

Any diet or vitamin suggestions that help with spider veins? I will try the vitamin C, E. Magnesium and zinc as well as the apple cider vinegar and perhaps the water cure mentioned in another entry. I doubt that I can drink 75 oz. of water a day, however.

What is the Master Cleanse mentioned in another entry? And Arnica montana= what does 5ch and 9 ch mean? Is this taken orally (I assume)? Any other suggestions for curing spider veins??

Thanks! Jeanette

Replied by Dave
(Fountain Inn, Sc)
07/06/2015

Hi Jeanette,

Re Spider veins;

I agree that Vitamin E is an essential. Make sure you do NOT get the E as almost all drug stores only carry synthetic. You want d-alpha tocopherol....not dl...the dl being synthetic.

Also make sure you are getting 500 mg of magnesium of some kind...I take the citrate form.

Also Edema and leg pain would be further indications that one might be low in E and Mag.

Replied by Marty
(Usa)
09/15/2018

If you soak in hydrogen peroxide at night you will have a lot of energy so it's best to do it in the morning or afternoon.

Replied by Kelly
(Seattle)
11/07/2020

I completely disagree with Dave above: Vitamin E THINS the blood -- it's the last thing you should use for spider veins as it will only increase them and increase the 'leakiness' of them. On the other hand, if you want purple feet... :)


Hydrogen Peroxide
Posted by Dana (Fort Worth, Texas) on 03/18/2007
★★★★★

Get this! I took a bath in hydrogen perixide and it made my SPIDER VIENS in my legs way less noticable!!! At first I thought it was the ACV i'd been taking, but after a week i noticed my viens back again. So I took another h202 bath (added 1 pt of 3% from store) and my legs are beautifull again!! I don't know how long it lasts, but temporarily it works!! I am so excited!

Replied by Whitlee
(Lexington, Kentucky)
05/20/2009

I've noticed there are very limited remedies for spiderveins- tried them all with no success. I have suffered from them for years and I am only 23 years old, they are so hideous, and I am too young to have to cover up my legs! Any other discoveries, suggestions, remedies, besides the hydrogen peroxide?

Replied by Anonymous
(Brazil)
05/21/2009

I used to have spider veins on my face (just below my eye, top of my nose, and forehead): these small red patches that would go away if I pressed them, only to return once the finger was no longer pressing the skin (a 5 year old nice of mine thought it was fun pressing my face and making it disappear, etc).

While at a dermatologist for another condition (folliculitis), I asked him about it and he said it was Spider Veins, and the solution would be laser treatment. With that, I just accepted the fact that I had it and did nothing about it.

Years ago I found this site and started taking ACV for no reason in particular, except to maintain good health. After about a year of taking it religiously, one day I was looking at old photos and noticed the spider veins. Up until then I had completely forgotten I had those at one point!!!! I was in shock to realize they were gone. Maybe it was the ACV, maybe not, who knows. But ACV has improved my skin (no blackheads, no ingrown facial hair anymore, no enlarged pores, no oily complexion, etc).

I use a couple of tablespoons on water, on an empty stomach, one or twice a day. On weekend I usually give it a break.

Replied by Patrisha
(Houston, United States)
05/13/2015

So when you take a bath, you mix 1 pint of 3% H202 with a tub of water and soak in it?

Replied by Gabbie
(Boston, Ma)
03/30/2017

Trish, above says she soaked in 4 pints of hydrogen peroxide. Worth a try as I just looked at my foot today and it looks worse than ever -- ugh!!!


Sea Salt and Water

2 User Reviews
5 star (1) 
  50%
1 star (1) 
  50%

Posted by Es (Nj) on 07/09/2015
★☆☆☆☆

I have been doing Dr. Batman's Water Cure for almost 2 years, religiously, and while it's been a MIRACULOUS & COMPLETE cure for my wonderful husband's formerly chronic headaches and sinus allergies, (of a 15 year duration) and it has been wonderful for me too, it has done absolutely ZILCH, nothing at all, for the spider veins which have continued to spread alarmingly fast all over my thighs and calves. I will do this for life, as it is the best prevention on earth for many ailments, as far as spider veins, I can't recommend it for that, unfortunately. Wish it did work though! I've searched for a cure for many years and figure I'll have to pay for saline injections after my pregnancy (which has made the spider veins way worse than they were, and they already were pretty bad)

Replied by Jayne
(Perth, Wa)
08/22/2017

Hi, I wouldn't go through the pain of saline injections again. They didn't work. And haven't for quite a few friends. Nor vasculyse. They are disheartening I've had them on my legs since I was 17 ... so 20 years now. Hoping the Celtic sea water salt will work as have heard many good things.


Sea Salt and Water
Posted by Catherine (Wellington, Nz) on 01/24/2014
★★★★★

Hi, I had unsightly spider veins on the inside of my ankles, gradually inching up my leg. I didn't know what to do about them, but shortly after they had been noticed I started on the "watercure" ( 1/4 tsp Celtic sea salt per litre of distilled water. Drink half body weight in ozs ie for 150lbs drink 75ozs per day) a couple months later I noticed veins had disappeared entirely and have never returned

Replied by dorothy
(texas)
11/30/2022

Hi, Did you actually dissolve the 1/4 tsp. salt in the distilled water or you just added the salt to your meals? Did you divide your total water intake in 6 equal portions and consumed one portion 30 min before a meal and 2.3 hours after a meal (for a total of 3 meals per day)? Which brand of celtic sea salt did you use? Thank you


Sodium Chloride Injections

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Duppy (Virginia) on 12/31/2013
★★★★★

I like to experiment on myself a lot. If I find a cheaper route than going to the doctor, I'm happy. I share it with others too. I use insulin syringes to inject the spider veins, and varicose veins, with 30% solution of NaCl, which is sodium chloride. I honestly just use the magnesium chloride you can spray on yourself. I mix 1/3 with that solution, then I put in 2/3 of water. If you don't have the spray, just dissolve sea salt and make a solution of 1/3 salt to 2/3 water. I fill up the syringes with that and be prepared for the sting. It does sting, which is normal. Docs don't use this type of solution anymore because it stings. I luckily was able to get my hands on some Lidocaine which I swiped from a doctor's office (I'm poor! ). I mix that in the solution a bit, which helps alleviate the pain.

Honestly, this is just what sclerotherapy is, but without the exorbitant price. I've had it done a few times and I just cannot afford the 3k bill to have this done every few years. I figured out how to do it myself. Make sure you only inject just a little bit into the veins, but right INTO the veins. It'll cause the spider vein to collapse in on itself. You're just injecting saline into your body, which isn't harmful. Just don't freak out when you see bruises because that's normal and they'll heal.

Obviously, if you're diabetic, don't try this on your own. Also, when you inject a vein with one of those insulin needles (which are super thin) if you see blood that comes out of your skin, that means you did good because you injected the spider vein.

Replied by Blue Eyed Gypsy
(N.c.)
01/19/2014

I've thought so many times about doing this myself, can you give more detail please? Thanks.

Replied by Losinghope
(Sacramento, Ca)
03/16/2014

I just read your post. Please email me with more information. I am desperate for something that really works and that I could afford. leamer4(at)comcast(dot)net. Thank you.

Replied by Kell
(Sc, US)
04/25/2014

Do you think NaCl gives you the same results obtained by Sotradecol and Polidocanol. I want to try this but I'd like to use polidocanol but I don't know where to get it. Thanks.

Replied by Duppy
(Va, US)
04/27/2014

Whatever you do, be careful. I experiment and screw things up sometimes. Whenever you make a solution, try for no more than 30% saline in distilled water. Use it fresh and don't let it sit because that will affect its safety. You can burn a hole in your skin if you do a higher percentage of saline in the water.

Replied by Lynn
(Oxfordshire)
06/01/2017

Can I get all that I need from the chemist. I have a large cluster of spider veins around my ankles. Will the injections work on those. Also is there a way to self inject varicous veins as it's so expensive to get them done through the doctors.

Replied by Daina
(Charles Town, Wv)
08/23/2017

Hi! I have done a lot of reading on DIY Sclerotherapy. Has anyone used regular Saline 0.9% and Insulin Syringes?

Replied by Stephen
(Edmond, Ok)
09/04/2020

Today sclerotherapy isn't saline solution, but a sulfate salt solution; sodium tetradecyl sulfate. It has side effects; whereas a 0.9% saline solution should not have side effects. An increased amount of saline can cause a stinging sensation. My late father, D.O., M.P.H., taught me that it was just a saline solution, but sometime in his almost 40 years of service, ending in 2012, it changed.

Replied by Maria
(London)
10/13/2020

Hi this is interesting. Can you provide a little more details on how you do the injections and how long does it last. Thankyou

Replied by dorothy
(london)
04/04/2023

So you can just use magnesium chloride solution topically instead of sodium chloride injections and would achieve the same effect? How would you prepare the magnesium chloride solution?


Vitamin C and Vitamin E

Posted by Ted (Bangkok, Thailand) 392 posts

Usually taking plenty of vitamin C sodium ascorbate, such as 1000 mg two times per day along with the baking soda at 1/2 teaspoon taken twice a day, and vitamin E 400 I.U./day if taken for about a month should help with the spider veins. Spider vein at least from my point of view is that the body's is in oxidation state and growth is not normal from lack of mineral such as magnesium and zinc also. Therefore antioxidants and mineral supplements should help. I have seen people being helped by this. People who fly frequently or are on the road, or standing too long, can also have this problem too.

Replied by Tracyanne
(Nsw Autralia)
04/16/2014

I would like to ask Ted about unsightly venous flares on lower legs and creeping up to just above the knee. I see where he advocates lemon and bicarb for the pain but what about erradicating the sight of them.


Zinc and Copper

1 User Review
5 star (1) 
  100%

Posted by Paloma (Lakewood, Ca) on 09/07/2017 2 posts
★★★★★

I am taking zinc and copper combo capsules for my spider veins on my legs. Although it does not take away the appearance of veins, it has however completely eliminated the discomfort. It has also helped take away the tiny red "angel kisses" or cherry angiomas on my legs. I take 1 capsule a day, each capsule contains 15mg zinc at 100% DV, and 2mg copper at 100% DV. These capsules contain both zinc and copper because too much zinc can lead to a copper deficiency, or that is what I hear. I get the 365 brand at WH. If you are like me and dislike shopping at overpriced WH, I have also found copper tabs and zinc caps at Sprouts.

I was taking this for 8 months with outstanding results, until I ran out and then I started getting symptoms. I had a patch of annoying itchy varicose eczema on the crease of my leg (behind my knee), my tiny angel kisses came back, and my spider veins were painful again. I went to the store and bought more and started seeing my symptoms gradually vanish. This supplement really does wonders for me, I kind of wish I'd had known about it sooner. I want to mention that although taking this supplement did not take away the appearance of my spider veins, I have say that my veins are much less noticeable now.

Replied by Ron Mexico
(Esopus, NY)
10/07/2023

I wouldn't take zinc and copper at the same time as they offset each other. You will want to take them separately for your body to be able to absorb both. Good rule of thumb would be to take copper in the AM and zinc in the PM (ideally after a meal).



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