Natural Remedies for Lyme Disease

Interested in acupuncture comment. My acupuncturist wants to help my lyme but isn't savvy as to how.

Thank you. I have neuro lyme. I got bit by a tick 10 years ago I'm still trying to find a line literate doctor but my holistic MD has me on oral antibiotics for at least 6 months but did not believe that I had neurological signs so I went to an infectious disease doctor who put me on IV antibiotics for 1 month I'm on my first week and I already feel waves of feeling much better and worse of course I'm also looking into Coconut Oil as treatment. I need an appointment with a doctor who is supposed to be into treating lyme but is known to put you on a lot of antibiotics for a long time. I'm trying to use natural and conventional medicine to get better I have a long list of supplements and natural things I changed my diet a lot and try to avoid sugar completely without feeling overwhelmed I study almost everyday for hours. Blood root is one of the few things I have not tried yet. I would love to hear Ted's input on chronic neurological lyme. Or lyme at all... And if anyone is reading this who needs help please watch "under our skin" -- it is a wonderful one and a half hour documentary you can find on youtube.

I stumbled upon this site and am absolutely thrilled to see the success stories and that others can relate to this horrible disease....I've felt so alone for so long, no one understanding anything of what I've been going through these years. I had not heard of 'herxing' ever until here. After reading everything from everyone, I ordered the following via online, U.S. grown and cultivated, organic and just started yesterday: Cat's Claw, Andrographis, Blood Root, Sarsparilla, Cherry Glutamine and restarted my B12, Fish Oil, E and probiotics. I'm starting slow, cautious but determined. We don't have a lyme specialty doc here, but I did do oral abx 30 days and the following month a PICC line with Rocephin. During the third week, started to get some energy and slight mental clarity, but crashed during the final week. After treatment, blood tests showed still-high inflammation, low electrolytes (?) and liver levels still elevated. Doc said it would take 6 months to 2 yrs to feel better and discouraged me from seeking any "Lyme Doctors". I had no idea what she was talking about until I finally did some research (I've been avoiding internet research not wanting to scare myself even more). Fed-up, not wanting anymore abx, I found you all through a friend. I will keep you posted. And hope to see more success stories on here. Thank you all so much!

Excellent comment, Bladdy Blah.

I am so glad you encourage people to not forego the antibiotics (they are inevitable with Lyme) and to seek the advice of an LLMD.

Many of the on-line Lyme groups out there are able refer you to Lyme knowledgeable docs in one's area (via PM), but for the most part, don't expect it to be the holy grail.

First, your insurance company will not pay for anything but the most basic of treatment. You will be on your own paying for it because the CDC does not recognize chronic Lyme as a viable health issue. Thus insurance companies consider any treatment to be "unreasonable" and will not foot the bill.

Second, this is not a one size fits all health treatment. Each of us has not just Lyme, but usually a host of co-infections. Moreover, borrelia and babesia and bartonella all have different strains, some strains of which are not even identifiable through the Igenix test. So your LLMD will be adjusting treatment accordingly, and it is a long haul.

Herbs and homeopathics are not effective with this rigorous bacteria--as a first line offense. I agree with Bladdy Blah, I have never seen anyone get completely well with anything OTHER than antibiotics. In fact, people get worse. So avoiding antibiotics is just postponing the inevitable.

Once it became clear to me what I had was Lyme, I immediately started following the protocol of Dr. Marty Ross on-line, until I could get a doc in my area. This meant ordering antibiotics through pharamacies online (New Zealand) and I'm so glad I did. (Less time for the whole little ecosystem in my body to multiply and grow.) Once it was confirmed through Igenix that I did in fact have Lyme and co-infections were suspected, the treatment began in earnest.

According to my doc, I have probably another year of antibiotics. I got Lyme in 2012. So prepare accordingly. Lyme hides, so even if you get a reduction of symptoms, unless you are on antibiotics that address the 3 forms of Lyme, you will have plenty of cyst form Lyme waiting to reappear.

There is great news, though! Everyone I know who started treatment gets back to themselves--eventually. So hang in there! And do watch the Under Our Skin documentaries--although I don't think they are "free" anymore, unfortunately. But anyway, look at the update on the people from the first documentary. OMG!!

Finally, reiki...acupuncture...energy healing, all wonderful additions when the worst of the herxing from antibiotics is over. I am getting ready to start reiki and will incorporate it into my repertoire as I finish off with the antibiotics.

I agree that Lyme is difficult to detect initially. Many MD are not trained to make diagnosis ot the desease. it start with fever, chills, myalgia, athralgia, later with cardiac manifestations (carditis, endocarditis, myocarditis). Quite often initially you have multitude of infectious deseases because the thick bite infect your body with different pathogens. it can be Borrelia (Lyme), Babesia (Babeosis), Bartonella (Bartonelosis) and Anaplasma (Anaplasmosis). Babesia is quite nasty and you can pass away if not treated. Bartonella and Babesia can damage the heart. Lyme borreliosis can too damage permanently the heart muscle and can be Deadly if not treated with antibitics and herbs. The best ABX are Amoxicillin, Penicillin V, Penicillin G, Cefotaxime, Ciprofloxacin, Zithromax.

To treat the bacteria you should drink organic Apple Cider Vinegar (ALWAYS diluted in glass of water, eat probiotic Yogourt every single day and drink a lot of orange juice (vit.C). Vitamin C is very important for the treatment, because it helps the immune system and helps the tissue repair. For the cyst form of Borrelia you should take Grapefruit Seed Extract tablet form 3 times a day. using Western blot and PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test you can confirm the presence of Lyme bacteria and the attached co-infections in the body.

For Neuroborreliosis, you should start treatment with Cefotaxime IV (2g/day) or Ceftriaxone IV (2g/day) for ten days. You can be treated with Minocycline too, because Mino can penetrate quite easily into the brain tissue. When treating Borrelia infection, you should always address the tree forms of infection: live spirochetes (motile form), cyctic forms and biofilms. Borrelia is able to survive the abx attacks, transfroming into cysts or creating bacterial biofilms, so tough to kill with abx. You should use biofilm busters in an effort to bust the nasty borrelia biofilms.

@Fred from Canada:

Just want to mention that the FDA put out a warning about using fluoroquinolone drugs such as Ciprofloxacin (Cipro) and Levaquin, both commonly prescribed by doctors for Lyme and many other infections. They can cause serious side effects, sometimes permanent. Please see this link: https://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm513183.htm

I can personally attest to these statements, specifically about Cipro. I've been prescribed Cipro for recurring urinary tract infections (UTIs) over the years. Three years ago, I tore my left hamstring simply taking one step from my porch into my home! It has never completely healed, although doing leg exercises has strengthened the surrounding muscles in my leg. Then, @1.5 years ago, the hamstring area directly behind my left knee "popped" again by just taking a small step up into a restaurant. My nutritionist back then let me know about the debilitating side effects of these particular antibiotics. Recently, since my kidney transplant 2 years ago, and since my immune system is compromised due to the immuno-suppressants, I've been getting the monthly UTIs again. Docs put me on 3 different antibiotics over these past months, including Cipro, to stop the infection. However, after each 10-day course, I'd get another infection 4 days later! Turns out I had the klebsilla pneumonia super-bug, which is NOT killed off by the antibiotics, thus causing, and allowing, the UTIs to recur! I then did my research, and discovered the essential oil, Oregano Oil which can kill off the super-bug. I've been taking it regularly now for the past 2 weeks, and "hoping" that I'm able to avoid another UTI. Will be going for a urine culture next week, and again hoping that the super-bug count has decreased. I'll check back and let you all know.

Also, anyone else suffering from recurrent UTIs, super-bugs, etc., please do your research and meet with a qualified health professional, including functional medicine professionals, keeping your primary doc in the loop! You need to be very careful ingesting/using new homeopathic remedies because everyone is different, and these remedies could affect different people differently!

Responding to my previous post about my having the klebsiella pneumoniae super-bug which had been causing my UTIs and allowing them to recur even after multiple rounds of antibiotics: I just had another urine culture done on 9/1/18, and the results just came in: "NO SIGNIFICANT GROWTH"!! WOW, and I happy! So, in my opinion, these good results were due to cleaning up my diet (absolutely NO sugar; NO carbs including breads, pastas, rice; taking Olive Leaf extract in capsule form at the very first sign of a UTI; and taking Oregano Oil capsules 2x/day for 2-4 weeks).

NOTE: remember to keep your Primary Care Physician and/or functional medicine specialist and/or integrative medicine specialist in the loop when planning on taking any supplements and/or essential oils.

Wendy,

Have you tried D-Mannose? Lyme seems to like to attack the kidneys, have been using this ever since my Dr. said this is what she uses daily. 1-scoop under the tongue daily is what I do to prevent UTI from taking hold. Haven not had a UTI since, she recommended 2-scoops a day if a UTI starts. This seems to wash the bacteria away.

I did not get any relief for LD with antibiotics that lasted longer than 1 week, although treatment didn't start until 53 years after bitten by a tick. That's the problem with living in a state that CDC is sure ticks know not to cross state lines.

Found a wonderful LLMD in Irvine, Ca; she made a referral for a Neuro-Optometrist in Riverside, Ca; that helped with balance and fatigue. After 1.5 years of treatment w/LLMD there are now days of energy and nausea is gone. In the 1st 2 months of treatment with membrane stablilizing power drink, BodyBio & Pekana drops brain fog, CTS and headaches disappeared.

I had chronic lyme for 9years and was not going away. I did take high vitamin c dose to my bowel tolerance and had clean diet for three months. No gluten and dairy, No sugar and my lyme got completely cured.

High dose of vitamin c really helped me but you have to take it everyday.

hi Fred,

i am in Toronto. Can you recommend a doctor? I got bit several weeks ago, has the fever and now horrendous pains have started. I didn't want to take antibiotics so I've been taking hydrogen peroxide food grade and stevia... some relief but not sure it will be enough or for how long. I keep reading that antibiotics are necessary but I'm afraid of getting the right kind and right dose. Had a bad cipro reaction years ago. I'm alone and scared to go to walk in clinic.

I haven't tried D-Mannose, but I'll talk with my functional medicine doc about it. Thanks for the suggestion!

Hi Diana. Please join LYME OH OH on Facebook. There is much info regarding Drs etc. on there.

Joanna

If you think you have Lyme you need treatment. I don't have it but I've researched this. Please consider getting the RIGHT tests that are crucial in identification and treatment. The test your MD orders is not right. The one you need Igenex labs test it is accurate test. The reason you want to move quickly with Lyme is that you want to kill this thing early on before it gets a foothold into your system. Unfortunately ACV is not going to cut it with something like this. My friend had early detection took antibiotics was cured.

Salt/C is an alternative for lyme disease that works. It combines vitamin C with Himalayan salt in measured doses throughout the day. The longer you've been infected the longer it takes to heal, but this works! If interested check out the book The Salt C plus protocol for lyme infection by M. Fett.

Hi,

I have lyme and my neck really hurts, it feels gravelly neath the skin crusty under the skin and painful, my neck jerks at times. I am also super tired and not sleeping well. I feel kind of achey and almost virusy, no fever or coughing.

My head droops, I don't use recreational drugs or booze ever and have not for a gazillion years. I do take gabapenitin, 150 mg for mood problems and 87.5 of trazodone both before bed, and deep sleep 2 -3 caplets with passion flower, valerian, etc and sleep thru 1-2 capsules.

I also have poor digestion, lots of loose very stinky stools big dumps of poop, mostly loose occas actual diahreah, a little constipation at times, reflux, occas heart burn, bloating, belching bad breath ibs. I am pretty sure I have parasites, itchy anus, feel hungry after I eat, I eat zero sugar ( I do eat fruit, or honey etc, no flour no wheat almost no soy, no corn, no junk food.

I have neuropathy in legs lower part, not from diabetis, very itch scalp, skin is too pale, dont feel I get much nutrtion from my food, tend to feel resentful and angry and loads of anxiiety that is always there, have lots of mercury fillings, trying to get money to have a holistic dr remove them.

I have long term vaginal infection, not sexually active with others for many years, mostly the pain and diges problems and exhaustion is wearing on me.

I have tried salt and vit c, does it need to be a certain kind of vit c, or do you have other suggestion, I feel so tired and scared. I don't have alot of money and taking loads of supplements has not helped. Any ideas would be most appreciated.

Thanks, Lilah

Totally understand. 23 yrs of unfathomable pain. Supplements didn't help me. Vit c may have helped my adrenals a little, liposomal is the best but expensive, synthetic ones are made from corn often, I found a whole food one. It won't be enough to kill lyme. Are you looking at an antibiotic protocol?

Lilah, may I recommend you begin taking coconut oil, a tablespoon a day and maybe progress your way up to two. Also get a B-complex vitamin to give you some energy. Take one in the morning and one along with your evening meal.

Begin a walking routine -- this is very important. Try to go a half-mile and stop and rest if you need. Eventually work your way up to a mile in the morning and one in the evening. If you cannot go out for a walk then walk around your house. Things will improve with exercise.

So it took another year to get antibiotics. I couldn't find a Dr. that would treat me or a company that would ship them into this country. My neck & knee pain is very severe. I know I have osteoarthritus in both so I get confused & think that's what it is but I have pain ALL over & extreme + the food allergies, & allergies to everything in the air & the digestion, & the addisons, & the thyroid problems, & the IBS, & the can't sleep, & the extreme fatigue, + the diagnosis of viruses, the lyme, cysts, biofilm, molds, h pylori, 3 forms of mycoplasma. I can't take the herbs. I react to nearly everything. I've been on antibiotics for 6 mths with no herx & no sense it is making any difference. I got some dapsome which is being used for lyme. Now there's a reaction!!! I only take 1/4 tab but I don't know if I can keep this up. I want to die everyday as it is. When you've been sick for 1/2 your life it's not that unusual to get dropped by everybody. But although I am too sick to take care of myself I am caring for someone who is being treated for cancer, caught early & his chances are good. It is very confronting when for 25 yrs you are told there is nothing wrong with you, you are left without a home or treatment, locked up in a psyche ward and now I'm watching someone with no less than 6 docs & an IV bag of antibiotics (that I can't get).

I learned about my LD just four months ago and realize I have had it my entire life. I had already been taking Iodoral and ACV with honey at 25mg per day. Recently, I upped it to 100mg a day, dividing the doses between Iodoral and Lugol's, because of my gum disease. My gums have quieted down and I am feeling good. I am shocked that iodine isn't first on the list for treating lyme.

Not everyone with lyme or born with it would be dead already! I have had it 20 plus years there are over 30 strains and each case varies. Please do not instill fear in others with such a general statement. I live on Cape Cod and most of us have some form or the antibioties! They are so many factors that must be considered diet enviorment and emotional toxins lifestlye etc

Ok, I re-read what was said about having Lyme their WHOLE life, and again , if you had it your whole life , swollen gums would be the least of your worries!!! And a dose of Iodine and some ACV is not going to do anything for you, may help for that day to relieve symptoms. But people do die every day from Lyme. You should be scared of this enough to tell every person you care about more than once ...People cannot get rid of this disease now. I've seen people "Think" they've rid their body of it, only to have it return with a vengeance, also it can lay dormant in some for years. But to not take it very seriously is a huge mistake.

Please do not criticize other's posts when you yourself do not have all of the correct facts. You absolutely can have Lyme Disease your entire life and "not be dead". I know because I am one of those people and I am 47 years old. I went through many periods of experiencing different symptoms. I have experienced periods of being couch- or bed-bound and was unable to read a page of book, and then I have experienced periods being able to semi-function and read with no problem. It has been a roller coaster ride and continues to be. Some Lyme patients are in a wheelchair or bed 24/7, some are up and about. It's a very individualized experience. There is already enough stigma attached to having Lyme and people not believing you are as ill as you are if you are a semi-functioning person. You stating what you did only perpetuates the myth that you have to "look" sick and "act" sick (i.e. be bedridden) to actually "be" sick. We Lymies are fighting that stigma every single day.

BTW, as far as testing goes, you are off on that one as well. The longer someone has had Lyme, the more likely they are to get a negative result, even on an Igenix WB. A dx is subjective and an LLMD will not only base it on labs but on symptoms and complete health history. That is another stigma we Lymies have to battle against constantly -- People believing a negative WB or other Lyme lab test meaning we are not really sick! Please do not continue to perpetuate these myths!!!! Yes, Lyme does need to be taken seriously, and so does educating with actual facts and not your own propaganda!!!

Lots of useless information. Does any one know what to do other than he said she said comments? If anyone knows of an effective TREATMENT / CURE please share it with us. Have a happy day and a merry Christmas, Robert LovemyAmber

I've had lyme 16 months that I know of. Been on doxycycline 6 months...helped but still sick. Started Biaxin and Plaquinil on the 16th of December and I feel soooo much better already. I hope it knocks it out all the way...

I can't believe I forgot about Lyme disease and this may save me- it is a hell like you described and I will get right on it!! I can barely shower or do anything and the mind wants to but the body is no!!

I like it. Cut to the chase- is there any treatment? For those caught early antibiotics work. 25 yrs without a diagnosis I've watched a woman my age who has had it same time as me go to another country to get hyperthermia only for it to return with a vengeance, IV antibiotics for 2 yrs, an LLMD through a uni were trialling a very expensive tea tree oil, made her very sick, me suicidal. I was ready to jump off the 8th floor balcony. I am so scared this is it.

Don't give up. I've had it since 1962 and have found help through ILADS by finding a LLMD that actually helped me. Prior I was begging my husband to let me go, this is not living. Find another LLMD, hopefully one that has LD.

I had my intestinal health wiped out for a long period of time from clindamycin and this Cipro can really set you back ...read read read

https://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm513183.htm

Very interesting about the clicking tendons!! I get this, too. If I use magnesium regularly I do not get the clicking/tightness. It is important to use smaller doses of magnesium 4 or 5 times a day. My jar says 175 mg. per dose. It is magnesium glycinate. It does not cause the runs. My integrative doctor said to take it 5 times a day. Dr. James Schaller also recommends using magnesium...even though it is believed Lyme borellia use it to make the biofilm. We need magnesium for so very many functions. Lyme depletes magnesium. Thanks for the info about the shingles. My sister had a bout with it. I suspect she has the co-infection Bartonella. I don't think she has Lyme. It is the symptoms of Bartonella that she seems to be experiencing. She has been scratched enough by cats to have acquired it.

How and where did you get this specific of testing done? I can't find a Dr.willing to test my mother for anything this investigative/ detailed. Thanks

I went to the emergency room..I was in sooo much pain.

Rita: Thanks for the detailed post and congrats on your quest for remaining healthy despite the chronic infection.

I wonder if you have ever tried Zapping and Colloidal Silver??

I have lately been using Berberine/Oregon Graperoot for chronic infection w/ insufficient results, so yesterday I took some and fallowed a few minutes later w/ Zapper and got very good results. Zapping somehow (something to do w/ cell voltage) increases the effectiveness of natural and pharmaceutical medicines.

Have you tried Uvi Ursi?? I get very good results w/ U.U. in the bacterial category. Lately I take 2 or 3 caps every 2 or 3 days. Looks like I need to try the Bloodroot as you have had such success.

Raw Bovine Thymus Glandular helps build immune production. I also take DHEA 50mg daily w/ occasional Pituitary Glandular or Solaray's Mens Multiglandular.

Wow. Thanks. I'll try the blood root & l glutamine right away. Thanks.

I want to try the bloodroot but the bottle says external use only. This scares me. Does it need to be taken on a empty stomach?

Thank you for sharing. I am new to Lyme and so scared. I am taking hydrogen peroxide food grade and salt water and mimosa pudica ( which made me expel a few long worms! ). I will order some bloodroot. Please try to view THE TRUTH ABOUT CANCER with Ty Bollinger.....it is viewing now for free and will probably have a replay weekend soon.....one of the very informed holistic doctors warned that glutamine causes cancer....please look into this.

God bless

There is a post at ehealth my meema stating that using Borax as a shower soap and leaving it on 5 minutes helps with Lyme Disease. So you do not have to ingest it. Note that Borax is safe for humans in low doses but used in pesticides because it is very toxic to arthropods. It is also mentioned as a cure for arthritis--which I sometimes see mentioned as a symptom of lyme (joint pain).

How do you mix it for a shower soap? My son is an MS patient and I suspect he also has Lyme. Thanks

I tried Bloodroot and probiotics for chronic lyme (36 years) and it works, I still drink it once in a while about twice a week. I just recently tried organic cranberry capsules for another virus my husband and I picked up. I immediately started feeling better from the lyme. I could not believe what I was feeling. I was also drinking about one oz of organic cranberry juice in 7oz. of distilled water. I supplement minerals and trace minerals for the distilled water. I drink about 4 to 6 glasses and take about 2 caps two or three times a day. I take magnesium and all the other supplements like stress b, e, pumpkin seed oil, probiotics, extra biotin and PABA and C. I hope you will try the organic cranberry juice. It is expensive but you just use about 1/2 or 1oz of it per 8oz glass of water so one bottle is like having 20 bottles of it. it is very bitter and strong so I add stevia to it. I also hope you try the organic cranberry capsules. Don't take it too late in the day because it will give you energy and you won't be able to sleep. Best of luck.

Ted saved my life with Borax a few years ago with Morgellons...I bathed with a cup of borax in the water and drank 1/8 teaspoon in a bottle of water every day except weekends.....hundreds of black specks came out of me in the tub. I also used a diluted borax water for my cat and he was cured. Just sip it gradually, not all at once.

Now I have new lyme and have been taking hydrogen peroxide 35% food grade and Himalayan salt and mimosa pudica. I am better than a few weeks ago but the twitching makes me crazy...usually after I take the peroxide or the salt water...I am so scared. I had forgotten about borax but will resume asap.

God bless

Hello Art;

I read the newsletter on "silver" you linked written by Darvish (The Townsend Letter).

Maybe you know the chemistry and can help me understand because it was unclear from the newsletter. I'm very interested in all things Ag (silver).

Almost all silver makers produce an ionic silver meaning one electron is removed from the Ag, leaving the Ag in a positive state, or Ag+. Some advocates say that the ion (Ag +) is not true colloidal silver and so have a method for adding the electron back onto the particle to make it Ag without a charge...like it originally was (47 electrons and protons).

Now in the Newsletter you cite, the writer advocates, a silver called "nano-silver"....and this, the writer says is better than Ag or Ag+ because it is 100 nano meters small and has a "wider surface area in water" than the others forms of Ag or Ag+ (Atomic radius meaning radius from center of atom to outer core of electron.) So that means that Ag, assuming a radius of .5, is much smaller than the 100 nm size in the Ag she is advising. I think I'm correct in that assumption because the writer never says what the nano size is for a simple atom of Ag (called by some to be "true" colloidal silver).

Do I have it right? Is Darvish's definition of "nano silver" that it is a larger than normal size of an Ag atom? Is "nano silver" an ion? (Is it positively charged or is it neutral Ag?)

If you know, I'd appreciate you filling me in.

Hi Dave,

I get what you are saying and I don't think that Darvish has the silver facts 100% correct, but I thought the article had enough merit to make it worth posting since Lyme Disease is a serious and complex illness with very severe symptoms and if silver turns out to be helpful against Lyme, then definitely worth the effort. You said the chemistry mentioned in the newsletter was unclear and I would say that pretty much mirrors what is typically found around the web on many silver sites because frankly, the science is not completely known yet about different silver products. You have previously touched on the fact that IS and CS can be confusing because everyone seems to have their own opinions on that subject and again I would say this is reflective of the fact that the science on silver is not completely known yet and as such, we are left to piece together what is known on the subject and draw our own conclusions based on the studies that are available.

Regarding colloidal silver and silver nanoparticles, it is my understanding that all silver nanoparticles are colloidal silver, but not all colloidal silver is silver nanoparticles. The reason being that once the particle size exceeds 100 nm, it is no longer nanoparticles but it is still colloidal silver. This size range has shown itself to be much less effective at killing pathogens than silver nanoparticles. From studies that are available, it appears that a particle size in the 12 to 20 nm range are the most effective at killing pathogens while being the least toxic to human cells. Colloidal silver in this size range and a parts per million value of 20 will appear as a yellow color similar to Johnson's baby shampoo. As the ppm rises the color will darken significantly. Over 100 ppm and the CS will start to turn brown while over 300 ppm and the CS will appear as the color of dark coffee. If the colloidal silver is capped, the capping agent can affect the color, sometimes darkening the CS and depending on what capping agent is used, can potentially improve the zeta potential of the silver particles as well as slightly reduce the particle size and reduce the potential for agglomeration, so capping is very useful and is often used in colloidal silver studies.

This article did not really discuss ionic silver (AG+) in any detail, but rather talked about silver nanoparticles (AGNP's) and colloidal silver (CS). Ionic silver has a positive charge and is attracted to normal human cells which have a negative charge whereas Agnp's are not attracted to normal cells. Ionic silver is much smaller than CS and it can enter cells. Opposites attract and likes repel each other. Here is another article which seems to explain the difference between ionic silver and colloidal silver better than I ever could. Obviously it will be part speculation as the available studies have not discovered all that there is to know about these two types of silver yet. Both are effective in terms of being able to kill a multitude of pathogens, but they are not the same. I hope this answers your questions, Dave.

Art

Here is the article:

Ionic Vs. Metallic Colloidal Silver

Copyright © 2012, 2013, 2014 cgcsforum.com

The Controversy:

There is much debate about the superiority of one kind of colloidal silver over the other. Manufacturers that sell ionic (clear as water) silver say its better than metallic nanoparticles (clear yellow). Manufacturers of metallic silver similarly claim theirs is the best. In actuality, ionic is not colloidal silver at all, but a silver compound (silver oxide), but it does kill pathogens.

Laboratory testing in-vitro (in test tubes or petri dishes) shows that both types kill pathogens, with it requiring about twice as much silver (by ppm) for metallic, but ionic being 25 times more toxic to human fibroblast cells. However the actual method of action is not fully understood for either type. Also, in-vitro does not equate to in-vivo testing. The conditions inside the human body are totally different than in a test tube. For instance, human cell membranes are negatively charged, and attract the positively charged silver ions, but repel metallic silver particles. This would waste the ionic silver by binding it to any cell preventing it from attacking pathogens in the blood stream, while keeping metallic silver circulating.

Known Risk of Argyria:

One thing is clear though. Ionic silver is far more likely to cause argyria than the metallic. Every scientific study supports this assertion. The reason this is so is for the very same reason that makers of ionic claim it cannot.

Clear ionic silver is made by running current through silver wires in water. This can create one and only one thing: silver hydroxide which decomposes into silver oxide. When consumed, silver oxide further reacts chemically with stomach acid producing silver chloride. This silver, being ionic is the smallest possible size particle. It is the size of one single atom of silver, and it is small enough to penetrate human cells. People who say this is the safest claim that because of its small size, it cannot get stuck in the cells. However, the error in that argument is that it does not stay ionic. Once inside the cell, it will react with sulfur or selenium in the cell and produce silver sulfide, or silver selenide. These compounds are not soluble, and stick to the inside of the cell. This is well known from biopsies of argyria victims done with a scanning electron microscope which show that the discoloration is precipitated insoluble silver selenide and silver sulfide which is now trapped in the cell. So the fallacy of the claim is that ions do not remain ions, they precipitate out of the cellular fluid and they tend to grow in size as more silver is absorbed by the cell.

Metallic silver particles, having similar surface charge to normal healthy cells, are not attracted to the the outside of the cell membrane, and are too large to enter cells, being about 45 times larger than a silver ion; so the chances of turning blue from it are much much lower. Cell membranes are meant to transport needed ions into the cell, and keep large particles out. The negatively charged outer surface of cell membraness capture ionic silver because of the electrostatic attraction between the positively charged silver ion, and the negatively charged cell membrane. There is no electrostatic attraction between metallic silver nanoparticles and cell membranes.

It is well documented in laboratory tests that the size of metal particles is important in their ability to inhibit pathogen cultures. This relation is due to the number of available particles for a given weight of silver as will be shown later in this article.

One thing which should be obvious about the efficacy of silver particles is that they have to have contact with the pathogen to kill it. A silver particle in one part of the body is not going to have any effect on a pathogen somewhere else. The actions an atom of anything can do is limited, and assuming no nuclear reactions:

A) It cannot summon a pathogen, or in any way attract it to itself except at atomic distances, or be attracted to a pathogen from a greater distance. It must be close enough to exchange electrons. This implies random encounters, so more particles gives a higher chance of a pathogen and a silver particle encountering each other.

B) It can donate an electron to something else if its a neutral atom which would convert the metal atom to an ion.

C) It can take an electron from something else if its an ion which would convert the ion to an atom.

D) It can stick to something else by adsorption.

E) It can bang into something imparting force and momentum. This is an unlikely method of action.

That being the case, then one would expect ionic silver to win hands down over metallic since the same weight of ionic silver contains many more individual particles than silver nanoparticles do. However, this is not the case.

Physical Differences:

One huge difference between a silver nanoparticle and a silver ion is its effective charge (Zeta potential). A silver ion carries a positive charge because it is missing an electron. A silver metal nanoparticle appears negatively charged because of the outer surface electrons. This makes silver metal nanoparticles strongly attract to relatively positive charged pathogens, while silver ions attract to negative charged healthy human cells.

A silver ion is one single atom, whereas a metal nanoparticle contains many atoms. The number of atoms in a nanoparticle can be estimated based on the packing ratio of spheres and the diameter of the particle. Think of filling a bucket with golf balls. Even though the bucket is full of golf balls, you can still pour an appreciable amount of water into the bucket. The volume of the golf balls related to the volume of the bucket is the packing ratio.

The diameter of a single silver ion is 0.33 nm (nanometers, or billionths of a meter) compared to a metal particle of 15 nm. The particle is about 45 times larger in diameter than the ion. The best possible packing ratio for small spheres packed into a larger volume is about 74%.

Therefor we can calculate the number of atoms in a 15nm diameter nanoparticle would then be (15 nm / .310 nm)^3 X .74 = 83,800 (approximate) and for a 14nm particle the number of atoms would be 68,160 approximately

So, a 20ppm ionic silver solution should contain 68,000 times more individual particles then yellow metallic colloidal silver for the same amount of silver by weight. (same ppm)

Since there are so many more ionic particles, one would expect the efficacy of ionic silver to be 68,000 times better. But its not! According to lab testing, ionic is only slightly better, and then only in certain circumstances. It in fact takes 68000 ionic particles to match the efficacy of a mere 29 15nm diameter particles.

So what could be possible explanations for this discrepancy?

Possible Causes for Metallic Silver to Outperform Ionic In Vivo:

A) Ionic silver has no effect at all on pathogens, and the effect that is seen is due to some amount of metallic nanoparticles present. There are plenty of agents in the human blood stream which can reduce silver ions to metal nanoparticles. Glucose for instance is very good for that purpose, and is found in the blood. The normal amount of glucose in the blood of a human is about 1 gram per liter. This is far more than enough to reduce all the ionic silver to metallic nanoparticles, although the reaction will be slow at body temperature and a large part of the silver ions may already be sequestered inside normal cells (cause of argyria). This does not contradict laboratory testing of ionic silver on bacteria as lab testing shows that the exudate from bacteria is also a reducing agent again pointing to silver particles as the active agent.

B) Ionic silver is only slightly effective, but the sheer number of particles makes up for it. (But why?, either it can kill a pathogen or it can't)

C) Metallic silver particles while less in numbers can kill multiple pathogens before being used up. This seems likely as there are many silver atoms on the surface of the particle available to interact with a pathogen. Removing one or deactivating one leaves many more.

D) Ionic silver is deactivated by reacting with selenium and sulfur compounds in the blood. This is known and is simple chemistry.

E) Chemically reducing something on or in a pathogen (Silver metal atom gives an electron) is more effective at killing it than oxidizing something (Silver ion taking an electron). It may also be that the sheer size of a metal silver particle is able to block a respiratory pathway of the pathogen, or may block a surface receptor site. It has been shown that metallic silver will bind to the receptor sites of the HIV virus blocking its ability to infect other cells.

F) Most of the silver ions are sequestered by being ingested by healthy cells and do not have the opportunity to kill any pathogens. Cell membranes attract and ingest metal ions needed to survive (sodium and potassium mostly), the majority of the silver ions will be captured by normal healthy cells and rendered useless in fighting pathogens traveling in the blood and lymph systems. This is very likely. Also, the chemistry of blood is a reducing agent for silver (high level of blood glucose), so ionic silver cannot long exist in a blood environment.

Particle Size Considerations:

Doubling the particle size decreases the particle count for the same weight of silver by a factor of 8, but increases the surface area of the individual particles by only a factor of four. So a doubling of particle size halves the effective surface area. Conversely, halving the particle size then doubles the total surface area. But the number of particles is also important, so thinking purely in terms of the surface area of an individual particle is not the best way to analyze the problem. Perhaps we should compare the total amount of exposed neutral atoms for each particle size

We can actually calculate how many atoms are in a particle, how many atoms would be on the surface, and how many would be available for interaction.

How many particles are there in 1 Liter of 20 ppm silver 14nm in diameter?

1 liter of 20ppm colloidal silver contains 20 mg of pure silver.
20 mg of pure silver is 1.87 X 10^-4 moles
1 Mole of any element contains 6 X 10²³ atoms
1.87 X 10^-4 moles of silver is then 1.12 X 10²⁰ atoms
The number of atoms in a 14nm sphere based on a .31nm radius of the atom, 74% packing ratio is 68,100
From this we can calculate the number of 14nm particles in the Liter as 1.64 X 10¹⁵

The numbers are based on an atomic bonding radius of .144 nm for a silver atom.

AgNp means silver nanoparticle.

From the table, it can be seen that increasing particle sizes not only decreases the number of particles for a given amount of silver, but also decreases the number of exposed silver atoms. For instance just doubling the particle size from 10nm to 20nm decreases the number of particles by a factor of eight. Is it any wonder that smaller metallic particles work better? Many sources claim that smaller particles are more effective because they have more surface area. This is not logical if one particle can kill one pathogen as has been shown with photomicrographs. This author believes that the real reason is simply that smaller particles means that there are more of them for a given weight (ppm) of silver. More particles equals a higher chance that a silver particle will encounter a pathogen and kill it.

Conclusion:

On a one to one basis of particle counts, metallic silver is far more efficient at killing pathogens than ionic silver with much less risk of causing Argyria. Also, the particle size of metallic silver is very important in that it determines how many particles are available for killing pathogens. Based on the findings of scientific research, there is no benefit to consuming ionic silver, and it is actually detrimental as it exhibits significant toxicity to normal cells. Metallic silver (yellow colloidal silver) is effective against most bacteria

Glen,

You said,

'I'll be taking big doses for a month or so, and normal amounts for probably the next several months after that.'

Could you tell us what doses you will be using exactly? Since you are making the silver yourself, can you also tell us if you are making ionic silver, nano silver or another type and at what parts per million? This information will be very helpful for anyone who wants to try to repeat your positive results! Lyme is a serious disease and anything that is effective as a treatment is highly desireable and I'm sure many readers here would appreciate that information.

Thank you.

Art

Art,

I make silver at home with a generator. Just the silver rods, electricity, a bubbler and distilled water. Does that mean I am making nano or ionic?

Nelda,

If that is the total ingredients in your run and you are not using heat while processing, then you should be making ionic silver that should look like clear water.

Art

Thanks, Art. That is helpful! I appreciate your posts on colloidal silver, by the way!

Glen, what kind of generator have you used to make your colloidal silver. I have researched several and am not sure which one is best. Thanks!

Hi Glen,

I know your post is several years old so I don't have much hope you will reply but I am looking at a bulls eye rash right now and would like to know whatever advice you can give me. Did the Lyme go away completely with your CS treatment mentioned in your post? Which generator did you buy? If it did not go away with your mentioned treatment have you been successful at getting rid of it some other way? Thank you for any help you can give me!

If anyone else has any contributions to help I will also appreciate it very much!

Can I ask what dosage of CS you took for lyme and for how long?

To Mama to Many;

Re Lyme disease...

Of course, bacteria transmitted by tick bite is at work. Different kinds of Lyme and also there may be "coinfections" which accompany the bacteria...one particular parasite and another bacteria.

Within days of the original bite, the infection can be in the blood stream; into joints and attacking the brain.

Well, not only coinfections by the two mentioned above but there must be (by my belief in the ubiquitous nature of viruses)...but also coinfection by any number of viruses. The tick leaves saliva which inhibits antibody production by the human victim.

There is a good article on Wikipedia on Lyme.

Now, as to treatment. I've come across one case I'm sure of and another that was positively diagnosed.

Friend bitten while he and his wife were on a hiking trip to forest...the identifying round rash in his case, on back around shoulder. In days the pain had migrated to right side of neck and in a week or two he went from vigorous and healthy to barely able to walk twenty yards down the street. Mainly he was bed ridden.

I believe he had been to three specialists and with no solution...he'd been given antibiotics of course over five months.

Treatment: Colloidal Silver mixed fifty fifty into DMSO cream and applied to bite site and neck. Then daily consumption orally of six tablespoons of CS, twice daily.

I told him if the CS was going to work he's actually feel his energy coming back within a month but in fact, in the first week he said he felt like his "old" self for the first time since the bite.

After a month, he was working again. And now (five years later) he is doing well with no problems.

Now here is the problem with analyzing what happened...

What did the CS kill? Was the bacteria that normally causes Lyme or one of the coinfection assailants...even a possible virus? Or did the CS kill it all?

No way of knowing. My thinking on the Lyme issue is this: Act fast with LOTS of CS and Echinacea. The Echinacea applied topically for a few days and drinking 6 drops in a glass of water three times daily with the topical application for two days, repeating on white cloth soaked with the Echinacea three times each day...that is a new soaking each time. The idea is to have a LOT of Echinacea on the site of the bite for two days. Then on the third day, I'd go to DMSO with CS mixed and applied topically for two days. Three applications daily for two days. AND, finally I'd be taking six tablespoons of CS orally twice daily (away from the Echinacea). I'd take the CS orally for SIX MONTHS to make sure the infection was killed.

The CS must be high ppm. Mine is 100 ppm and I make my own. Generators can be bought on line inexpensively...Google "colloidal silver generator inexpensive" and you can buy one (battery powered) for 70 dollars. I make it by just adding twenty grains or so of salt to two cups of heated water (90 degrees F) and immersing silver "rods" that come with unit and immediately you see the white cloud of silver atoms coming off the negative pole. In five minutes you have a cloudy concentrate. Dilute repeatedly with filtered water until you see no cloud and do not taste any metallic.

That is the solution I know is strong but not too concentrated. I use as a nasal irrigation or as a gargle. I drink that CS four or five times weekly (five tablespoons) to kill latent viruses and bacteria in my system...as we age the immune system loses potency. But if I had a known infection I'd triple the dosage for three to six months. If I had a Lyme issue...certainly for six months and maybe a year.

Dear Dave,

Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate the information!

~Mama to Many~

According to Stephan Buhner, tea of Astragalus root is a preventative for Lyme disease.

Wow, thanks for all of this thorough info. Do you have a recommendation for a brand of CS to try before investing in making my own? I would like to see how it work for me first. Also it sounds like quite a large dose you are taking and suggesting, I have heard that there is a danger line in taking/using CS and crossing that can cause an overdose or bad side effects.

Hello Gwsevt

On your quantity question...take three tablespoons three times daily. See effect after ten days. I've been on cs 20/years. Earth Clinic has a video of me making and discussing. Might be helpful.

Goji berries are increasingly popular because of their high antioxidant content. However, this fruit is part of the nightshade family of plants. Other berries, such as ashwagandha, an herb used in Ayurvedic medicine, Cape gooseberries, but not normal gooseberries, ground cherries and garden huckleberries, but not blueberries, are also considered nightshades.

I think diet may be the key to it all. Glad you mentioned such. I have been dx with Tourestte's (from very early childhood), and SLE (lupus). A firend of mine thinks it's all Lyme disease. My son has Tourette's too. I was actually bitten by deer ticks in the Blue Ridge mountains years ago, as was my dog. For years we had the same symptoms, and were on the same meds! Finally, a vet tested her, and she was positive for Lyme's disease. I don't remember being tested, but have been on very long courses of abx over the years for different things. It's all about inflammation with me. If I could take away the inflammation, everything would be fine. Many food, and so many enviro toxins make me sick. My joints ache just thinking about bread. My sweet little boy tics like a clock, and has depression adn emotional problems. He also has learning/cognitive issues, and poor muscle tone. My friend who is involved with Lyme research says that I probably passed it to him when I was pregnant. Is there anything I can do to help him? I am resigned to my disablility, but he is so young and suffering.

It's very likely both you and your son have Lyme. I have it and my son has it who also is on the autism spectrum. I suspect all of his symptoms are caused by Lyme. Please find an ILADS doctor to test and treat.

LucyJane88 Our family is very familiar with Lymes. Treating w/antibiotics did help but MORE SO was a complete NO GRAINS diet, including rice, corn (grains), oats, & all dairy (casein) protein, sugars and no aspertaine or HFCS (high fructose corn syrup). May you & your child feel better soon.

Goji berries are part of the nightshade family, too.