Ted's Borax & Peroxide Mange Treatment for Dogs

Hey Tim!

You use as much of the diluted hydrogen peroxide as you need. The key is to make a *saturated* solution with the borax. So if you need a gallon of the 1% h2o2 to bathe your dog, keep adding the borax crystals to the point where they stop dissolving. The correct prepared solution should have undissolved grains swirling around.

I have been at my wits end with my year old pup. When I rescued her about a month 1/2 ago, she had a bald spot on her back. I was told that it was a hot spot. It seemed crusty, then suddenly flared up. I now have ringworm! I imagine I got it from her. I have been treating her/me with "athletes foot" fungus cream. The vet has done a skin test, also plucked a few hairs from her, to see if fungus grows. But, this will take 3-4 weeks! I'm also wondering if this might be mange. Today, I tried the Borax/peroxide bath on her. She didn't drink any! After she was almost dry, I let her out in the sunshine. About 2 hours, she was throwing up! I saw a post from someone asking if this ever happened with their dog. Well, it sure happened with my dog! I finally bathed her again to get it all off of her! Just FYI

Hey Mary Ellen!

Thanks for sharing your experience!

You might consider reading up on EC's ringworm page:

https://www.earthclinic.com/pets/ringworm.html

Hey Angela!

For sure try Ted's Mange Remedy; it is not toxic, and your dog would only get an upset stomach if he drank up a gallon of the solution :-). You can try bathing every other day for a total of 3 dips and monitor results in between - does the itching get less or stay the same?

I would not bother with the E-collar, however I would strongly look at his diet -is he eating a grain free natural diet, or does his diet contain corn and other grains along with coloring agents and dyes and sugar? Upgrading the quality of his groceries can go a long way in keeping a dog less itchy.

Along those same lines you can add baking soda to his water to help alkalize his system and balance the PH. A maintenance dose is 1/2 teaspoon into 1 liter of drinking water, and have that be his only drinking water. For a break out of intense itching I might try 2 or 3 teaspoons into 1 liter of water and do this for 5 days max, then drop down to the maintenance dose.

Hey Charisse!

It would appear the welding flux is OK for topical use but not for taking internally.

Check out where to buy Borax in the Philippines here - you will have to scroll down and read the various discussions, and also even look at Thailand for sourcing:

https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/borax15.html#philippines

You might also consider sulpher powder -

Make a salve by mixing one part "flowers of sulphur" and two parts vaseline - and then add a thin oil such as baby oil to thin the salve for easy application.

Oh Goodness, Thank you so much Theresa! :) I would do the procedure tomorrow. I'll let you know if it works on her. :) thank you so much :)

Hi! Did the brazing flux work? I'm also from the Philippines and can't find the detergent booster. Would be glad to hear from you. Thanks!

I found difficulty to find the borax in my city. what kind of borax should I use to save the dogs from demodectic mange? Do you have any suggestion to buy in Indonesia? thank you...

Hey Mandi!

Demodex mites do not tunnel under the skin, the stay in the hair follicle. I have seen traumatized skin - a cut or area scraped by a tooth during puppy play - turn into a small patch of demodex, this because the mites were able to take advantage of the damaged skin which allowed their population to over grow. I have seen in the more advanced cases what appear to be black heads. What I have not seen with demodex are crusty scabs followed by eruptions.

I will say that I have used Ted's mange cure many times, and have gotten it splashed into my own eyes and mouth and it did NOT sting my eyes and only tasted salty, and I did not get ill from it, so you can relax about using the remedy on your dog's face.

I would love to see photos of your dog's skin funk -from across my keyboard and reading what you have posted it does not sound like demodex mites.

Thank you Theresa for your reply! My dog ate a few advil pills on a Saturday then this started the following Tuesday. At first I though it was a reaction to the ingestion of toxins.... Our vet said it seemed like a bacterial or yeast infection but it hadn't spread at the time. Today I noticed a new crusty bump appearing on the margin of the last eruption ( which is in the process of healing now) which probably means a new eruption is brewing :( it has not spread beyond his muzzle and my husband and I have not gotten anything and neither has our other dog in three and a half week's time. I will email some pictures as I am not able to post them here. Is there a particular email I should use? Thank you very much! Mandi

Hey Mandi!

What a cyootie patootie! I cannot tell if he is a Siberian or an Alaskan Klee Kai, but I can see for sure he is a beauty!

That does not look like demodex; 'ringworm' comes to mind but it doesn't look like your typical ringworm.

If this were my dog I would: scrub the whole muzzle, not just the affected sores and get any crusty, scabby skin off the sores while working at it. The anti-staph/anti-fungal solution would be a good choice to use after the washing/scrubbing is complete; you want to flood the entire area with the solution and really saturate it down to the skin. I would also consider using an OTC tripple antibiotic ointment on the sores. Try flooding the muzzle with the solution every day for 3 days in a row, and try applying the antibiotic ointment twice a day for the next three days and then report back.

Hey Theresa!

wow you know your dog breeds! Not many recognize an Alaskan Klee Kai :) he's 16 months old, .. Full grown! He is a cutie pie , thank you! Hoping he won't have permanent scarring, where the first sores were they have healed but left a pigmentation mark but that's the least of my concerns ;) I've used the mange cure 3 nights in a row and it seems to be working! He has no open sores anymore and the one I thought was going to erupt seems to have stopped with the cure ( it didn't erupt, turned the skin whitish). I will make the other remedy and apply it tonight instead. I don't think he needs the antibacterial ointment because there's no open sores but I'll get some jic. He gets lots of good supplements, including garlic and Vit C and especially for the skin issue he's getting homeo Sulphur and ledum palustre. I'll report back in after a few days And send a pic. Thank you so much for all your help to us and for helping so many people and animals! May many many blessings return to you all for your service! :) do you all accept donations? I'd like to offer something in exchange for your time/ energy.

Thanks again, Blessings, Mandi & Tiko :)

Hey Mandi!

Glad your AKK is on the mend!

I don't take donations, but if you ever see a French Bulldog figurine in an antique store, I would be happy to take it off your hands.

Please keep me posted on your boy's muzzle!

Hello Theresa,

hope you're doing well! Thanks again for all your help! I submitted a couple of pictures of Tiko. I added the Epsom salt and MOM as you suggested to the h202 and borax and applied it every night. It has worked beautifully. His fur is growing back in and all that is eft are the pigmentation marks from the sores. I stopped applying it just two nights ago. Do you think that's ok ? Or should I keep it up for another few days just in case?

Blessings, Mandi

Hey Mandi!

It sounds like it is healing up very nicely! :)

I think you are OK stopping with the treatment now that you have had such good results.

Photos of Tiko!

Hey Mandi!

And - whoa!!! What a turn around! He looks GREAT! :)

Thanks for the update!

Hey Paula!

I have to say, that I for one have an excellent relationship with my vet, he doesn't scam me, isn't in it "just for the money", has talked me out of expensive tests that I insisted I needed [he was right, I didn't need them] and has always been fair with his pricing and when I thought things were expensive has always explained the bill in detail so I could see all fees charged were reasonable. Even if I don't like paying expensive vet bills, they are part of owning a pet and not all vets are crooks. So if you had a good relationship with your vet please do not let other's poor experiences change the way you relate to your vet.

Now, it is entirely possible your dogs have scabies mites; this is a contagious form of mange and as you already know, skin scrapings by their very nature can be hit or miss. If these were my dogs I would treat all three with the mange remedy. Do it twice the first week, and thoroughly clean and launder all bedding. Keep this up once a week after the initial 2 dips for another 6 weeks.

Also, alkalizing may help if what you are seeing is NOT contagious and just a huge coincidence that the Dodgy Dog did not give your dogs a bug; it is entirely possible all three are dealing with allergies. So try this; 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda into 1 liter of drinking water, this as the only drinking water for 5 days, then drop down to 1/4 to 1 liter as a maintenance dose. When my dogs go through an episode of itchies I do this with their water and take it myself! If the dogs are reluctant to take the water I will do 1/4 into 1 liter for the first 2 days and then bump it up to 1/2 for 5 days and then drop down to the maintenance dose for 2 weeks. I don't keep them on the baking soda all the time, but during allergy season I will dose it 2-3 times a season.

Hi Theresa, thanks for replying. I do worry that vets sometimes treat animals for the wrong reasons, I wish I had a vet like yours :-). Both of my dogs are insured anyway so the bills don't bother me. My main concern is to avoid the toxic chemicals for all the dogs - the vets would have it otherwise.

I can't quite pin the symptoms on sarcoptic mange as it generally starts on the ears and face apparently and I can't see any hair loss at all on Kody - I can see, with my overly paranoid gaze, thinning of her fur on her thighs I think. It can't be demodectic because apparently that isn't contagious outside a litter situation. Kody only started nibbling at her legs and thighs yesterday.

I can't hurt her with this treatment can I, that's what I'm bothered about. Neither dog can live like this so something has to be done. Hopefully this borax and H2O2 treatment will sort it. If not then it's back in the hands of the vet but I'll be worried sick about the toxic treatment.

With the Borax and H2O2 treatment I gather that the situation will initially appear worse as the die off starts? I'm figuring that if it does get a little worse then it confirms that it is actually mites. Do you think that's so? And if it's been a flea bite allergy would it go on this long once any fleas that may have been on her have gone?

I've put the sodium bicarbonate in their water with a little borax as someone else suggested (I've taken this myself so I know its ok). I'll let you know how we get on.

Hey Paulaj!

My experience with sarcoptic mange/scabies is that it starts where it starts - no starting on the ears and face [text book for demodex] rather it just starts where it can - AND can be super tricky for your vet to figure it out until the situation becomes extreme, and thus readily apparent as to what the problem is.

The borax/hydrogen peroxide solution is not toxic, does not have an accumulative effect in the body at the cell level, and is effective. I have used it literally hundreds of times - it is my first "go to" when I see any skin issues in my pack. And it is not that I suspect each time I see a skin issue that it is the result of a parasitic mite, rather the solution has a broad spectrum appeal so covers mites and bacteria and yeast.

If it gets worse after application it could be mites - but without confirming with a microscope cannot be sure. And flea allergy simply means that your pet was exposed to fleas at some point in their life and developed an allergy to their bite; even if the environment if free of fleas, if on a walk your dog get's bit, then it will react accordingly.

One thing I do know is that dogs of any age can develop allergies to all sorts of things that they had no problem with prior. Perhaps your dog now has a grass allergy, or a pollen allergy. You sound like you are savvy on your critters so likely feeding a top diet, grain free kibble or RAW - but do check the ingredient panel and consider shopping around if you have been feeding the same brand for a number of years. Some find switching protiens to be of great benefit for dogs with food allergies, so they feed a beef diet one week [or one bag] and a fish diet the next, and then on to poultry, then pork, then venison, then duck - and so on.

I do think you are on the right track with alkalizing the water. Do try the dipping solution for the entire dog and consider doing it daily, right after your walk, on just the affected areas.

Has anybody's dog thrown up while being treated with borax and H2O2? I know I got the solution right - no doubt about that. It could have been the situation, Kody's never been in the bath before - I usually do her in the shower. She vomited three times - yellow bile (luckily she hadn't yet had her breakfast). She's absolutely fine now but I just wondered.

This is the first I have heard of it; did she ingest the solution? This doesn't absorb through the skin - so being bathed in the solution would not cause vomiting, only if she drank a goodly amount of it, ie quart. What might cause an upset is undue stress due to unfamiliar routine.

She only ingested it in as much as she could lick off her shoulder as it ran down before I stopped her, she didn't lap from the bath. It must have been the unfamiliar situation, that and being lifted in - I think that's the first time she's been lifted since she was a pup. She's a bit of a sensitive lump is our Kody :-), big dog and beautiful temperament. She's almost dry now, all dusty white looking but she's happy enough. She's only scratched twice since her bath but I expect that's because she's cool being damp.

I'll do as you suggest and get her most obvious problem areas done again tomorrow. I'll sponge soak her outside I think, might be easier and less stressful for her (and me, it didn't do my back much good lifting her out quick to avoid her getting covered in the floating yellow goo she'd deposited in the bath). She has a black tipped topcoat so I expect that will turn colour as we progress but her black will come back won't it. I hate to see her so miserable with this horrible itching, I really hope this works.

Hi Theresa. I want to tell you about Bailey. I started giving her the borax, but I don't know if it is normal, she was with diarrhea. So I stopped and started her with the baking soda, and spraying her with the solution you told me. She is doing much better. Thank you. Something else - what is the best food for her. She needs grain and potato free. Do you know a good brand, Now she has her mammary glands really swollen. I am giving her coconut oil with turmeric once a day. What else can I do for her. Thank you for helping us and our pets.

Hey Nayibe!

The best food is the one she does the best on - there is no one brand I can suggest as it is an individual thing. I like to use the dogfoodadvisor.com website to search out different brands, and I try to feed only the top ranking diets. There are entirely grain free and potato free diets; one well respected diet that fits your criteria is 'Origen' - some people report great results feeding this diet, however I wasn't happy with the results for my pack; I suspect they need a bit more fat and more carbs due to our harsh winters. Again, this is for my dogs and you may have completely fantastic results feeding Bailey on this diet. One word of advice - since grain free diets are very concentrated you need to feed less, meaning if you normally feed 1 cup of grain/potato/meat kibble you should start off by feeding 3/4 cup of the meat based diet. If you see loose stools this is often the result of feeding too much of a calorie dense food, so try cutting it down to 1/2 cup, etc.

Keep an eye on the mammaries and feel around; *hard* lumps that feel like dried peas can be cancer, while extreme tenderness around a swollen knot could be mastitis.

Thank you again. I took her to the vet this morning because of the mammary glands. She said the larger one is fat but there is another one of which they took a sample to examine it. Hope is nothing bad. I will let you know. Thank you and God Bless you.

Hi Theresa --- You probably know it but here for visitors to the EC site BEES KNEES mite spray.

This was from the poultry keepers blog which I visited just to make sure I am missing something. After reading a long column of woes, I sent them my condolences with a remark, here on EC sometime ago that a grandmother had yearly put lard under the wings of her flock. With success because she did it every year. Wish my dog had wings.

My big hound has probably red mite infestation. But as with all mites, they defy everything but nuclear fission. Last year I treated it with orange cleaner essential oil. Now, in the heat, it is back. They are all over the world; just read up and it raises ones heckles. They increase in the millions and invade house and home.

I treated my boy with Ted's but with his water dog fur it slides all off and it is worse thence. I have a little ten pound Maltese with mites. Easy to do but no noticeable results and with the treatment he looks like a toothbrush now.

As with my own mites, I have them sort of under control by means most people may not believe in. But they do make a difference. Firstly, mites do jump. They did from the used pillow I used once. Slowly my hair lost its beauty and I am still fighting the invasion in face and hair. Luckily, not the rest of my body. One poster on EC said that a green Led light would get them out of the eye socket and ears. Mine are invisible.

So, what I use is a mixture of Palma Christie (cold pressed castor oil) and VCO. If it does not go into the eyes one can add an essential oil to the mix. But even without essential oils, the eyes do well because they are killed evidently because of the "sleep" around the eyes.

Other posters in the past had mentioned the applying of ones saliva when the tickling is first noticed. This is very effective, I must agree. After application, no more bother. This points to the body's defensive mechanism designed for the individual constitution. This then leads to my no.1 weapon which is urine therapy (UT). This is the blueprint of ones own individual condition creating the anti bodies for everything out of balance. I use a washcloth and rub my face well with the result of very fine, perfect complexion and it is as good in the eyes. This what has helped a lot. Also the hair, which can be rinsed after half an hour or so. Being vegan the scent is very delicate and pleasant.

On the list is still flowers of sulfur, homeopathically as well. Added to which raw veggies processed and the only exception of grains is barley for our friends.

So, the Bees Knees is a number of toxic essential oils , clove, cedarwood (not for cats) rosemary, lavender. NEEM OIL interrupts the breeding cycle. These are all toxic to mites. Twenty drops of each one tsp of liquid soap and fill the spray bottle with water. Shake.

This is not inexpensive but has helped some.

Even our feathered friends have a lot to suffer from. Namaste, Om

Namaste, Om!

Do you refer to Bees Knees Pomade? I am unable to find a mite spray under that name. I do recall Oxime for mite control in a poultry setting.

I was wondering the exact measurements of one bath? I have two pups, one 10 week old and one 8 month old that I want to treat together to make sure its out of the house! I know the protocol called for a liter of peroxide and a half liter of water with 3 tablespoons of borax. Is this correct for one bath? Thanks!

Hey Kelsey!

The amount needed for 1 bath is the amount needed to fully saturate both your dogs to the skin!

I have a quantity of dog/s and this remedy is my 'go to' when any sort of skin issue arises; I have also used it to successfully resolve demodectic mange in a puppy.

What I do is get an empty plastic 1 gallon jug so I can mix up a big batch. I get 1 brown bottle [16 oz] of 3% peroxide from the grocery store - and I pour that into the jug. I then use the empty brown bottle and fill that up twice with water and dump that into the jug with the peroxide. This gives me 48 oz of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide. I then add 1 full cup of borax [from the laundry aisle at the grocery store - plain, not scented] and shake it up. What you want is there to be so MUCH borax in the jug that it stops dissolving, leaving grains swirling around in the bottom of the jug. If you have a big dog you can use two jugs and mix up a super big batch - just make as much as you have dog.

What I then do is fill the bath tub with warm water and sit the jugs in it and let them get warmed up. When the water is just right I bathe my dog with regular shampoo and rinse well, making sure I use my hands to squeegee excess water off. I then plug up the tub when it is empty, and them pour the solution from the jug over the dog. I then use a plastic cup to scoop up solution from the bottom of the tub and pour it over the dog again and again for 20-30 minutes. I have done 2-3 dogs at a time to make the most of the solution. I then crate the dog in an empty crate - no bedding to absorb the solution - and let the dog sit in the crate with a chewy for another half hour so the solution can continue to work. After half an hour I let them out, towel them dry and brush the grains of borax off of the fur. You may want to bump up the temp in the house or put the dogs in a room with a space heater so they do not take a chill.

I use the dip for mange every other day for a total of 3 dips for the first week, and then once per week for a total of 12 weeks.

Good luck!

this is the formula I used:

1 16 oz brown bottle of 3% solution hydrogen peroxide from grocery store.

I dumped that into a jug and then added 2 bottles of filtered tap water using the now empty brown bottle from the hydrogen peroxide, giving me 48 oz of 1% hydrogen peroxide solution.

1 16 oz brown bottle of 3% solution hydrogen peroxide from grocery store.

I dumped that into a jug and then added 2 bottles of filtered tap water using the now empty brown bottle from the hydrogen peroxide, giving me 48 oz of 1% hydrogen peroxide solution.

Now, into the jug full of 1% solution I add 1 full cup of borax [from the laundry aisle at the grocery store]. Shake it up - there should be so MUCH borax in the solution that some grains remain and do not dissolve.

I then fill my bath tub with very warm water and set the jug in the tub; by the time the tub cools down enough to comfortably bathe the dog, the contents of the jug are nicely warmed also. Now bathe the dog with the shampoo of your choice and then rinse all the shampoo out. I drain the tub and when all the shampoo and water have drained, I plug it up again so it will again hold water. Then I shake up the solution in the jug and pour it all over the dog. I then use a plastic cup to scoop up the solution in the bottom of the tub and then pour that over the dog. Do this again and again, re-wetting the dog with the grainy solution, for at least 10 minutes. Next part: do NOT rinse the solution off the dog. Take your sopping wet dog and put him in a crate with no bedding; you want as much solution to remain wet on the dog while he sits in the crate - give it another half an hour in the crate to allow the solution to 'work'. After half an hour I let my dog out and towel dry, and then let him shake the grains of borax out of his coat. It helps to turn the heat up in the house so the dog isn't freezing while sitting wet in the crate. I have doubled the batch of solution simply because its so inexpensive and it makes it easier to saturate a big dog.

You should dip your dog in this solution every other day - 2 to 3 times the first week; after the first week do once per week for 8 weeks.

Hey Kelsey!

It occurred to me that you might have Chihuahuas and might not need 48 oz of solution :-)

The formula is this: 1% hydrogen peroxide + borax - you keep adding the borax until it stops melting/dissolving in the solution. This is called a 'saturated' solution where the liquid can take no more of the borax so it stops dissolving. As long as you add borax to the point that it no longer dissolves you don't need to worry so much about measuring it.

You make a 1% solution from the brown bottle from the grocery store - usually a 16 oz bottle of a 3% concentration of hydrogen peroxide - by adding 1 part hydrogen peroxide to 2 parts of water. So 1 cup of your 3% brown bottle solution to 2 cups water and you now have 3 cups of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide - and to this you add the borax.

Hope that helps!

Hey Lexi!

IMHO what you are seeing is normal. When the mites experience a massive die-off, their decomposing bodies that are deep in the follicle release highly irritating toxins, resulting in the pustules that you are seeing.

You might consider using Ted's Anti-staph/Anti-fungal remedy to stack the deck against a secondary infection to the traumatized areas.

Take 1/3 cup of hydrogen peroxide [the bottle contains a 3% solution] and add 2/3 cup pure water; this gives you 1 cup of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide. To this add 1 teaspoon EACH of: Epsom salts, Borax, and Milk of Magnesia. Blend well until all crystals have dissolved and apply to the affected areas. This has a 'working' effect for 24 hours; you can apply daily or as needed.

Thanks, Theresa! I will try that other mixture as well...

So do you think the darkening of her skin is also a normal reaction during the die-off, healing crisis?

Thanks again,

Lexi

Hey Lexi!

The darkening of the skin could be part of the normal pigmentation process that occurs as your pup matures and not related to the demodex at all - or it might be allergy related. What color is your pup?

Thanks again for getting back! I just applied the mixture you supplied and we'll see if that helps!

She is mostly red, but has a black mask, but striped with white on her face, white chest, white belly and a few white spots on the top of her neck Everything else is red, except the slight black mask on her muzzle and ears.

She does have varying skin colors where she's hairless on her belly and it ranges from white to dark purplish. The infected spots that are turning color were first much more white and now are turning the purple color like what's on her belly. And they're turning darker on both the red and white parts of her body....hmmmmm, so after reading about black mange or hyperpigmentation being a bad sign, it got me worried that maybe this natural remedy isn't working! But her skin is flaking away where old bumps used to be, which to me is good!

I know beating this is a patient game and I'm just not that patient. :)

Thanks again,

Lexi (& June Bug)

Hey Lexi!

What you are describing sounds like normal pigmentation for a pied -and sounds like you have a very pretty black masked fawn pied. In dogs where the skin turns dark from allergy, they are typically much older and have a history of allergy. I find with frenchies that the first year - demodex aside - tends to be fairly problem free, but the second season hits with a vengeance, and any allergies that did not appear in the first year manifest during the second.

One other thing you can do that may help/help a lot/certainly won't hurt - is alkalizing by adding baking soda to her water. There are two doses - 1/2 teaspoon into 1 liter of water, this as her only drinking water, for 5 days; the maintenance dose is 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 liter of water. When I notice that my pack of frenchies are starting to get the seasonal itchies, I do the crisis dose for a week, then drop down to the maintenance dose for another few weeks. I also take this myself while I treat the dogs ;-) So, this may help with the current demodex situation by balancing your dog's PH and thus making her less attractive to the demodex mites.

Thank you again, Theresa!! I can't tell you how valuable your feedback has been and how great that you too have Frenchie experience!

Did you find that if you let a female go into heat after having demodex as a puppy that she had another outbreak (or were the allergies that manifested the second year come after a heat)?

I will try the drinking water fix as well, thank you!

I can tell you that her itching flat out STOPPED last night (first night ever without itching!! ) and I had applied that anti-staph/yeast solution earlier in the day.

I will write again hopefully when she's fully recovered, but so far, Ted's remedies (and your faithful help) are curing little June Bug!

Thank you,

Lexi

Hey Lexi!

I originally found this website because my brindle pied frenchie had demodex. The littermates had it also, but I was the only puppy person to go 100% drug free/wholistic in treating my puppy. The other puppy owners used Ivermectin and other drugs and out of them all my puppy healed up the fastest using Ted's Remedy. I find that after the first episode of puppy demodex that it does not return; should it appear in an adult dog it usually happens due to an underlying disease condition, or a very stressful event.

I find that for allergies, if you are going to be allergic to something, you need to first be exposed to it; this is where your immune system decides if it is friend or foe. Upon the next exposure the immune system has decided friend or foe and reacts accordingly. So, the first year your puppy may appear to be free of the seasonal allergies that affect so many frenchies - but next year, when the allergens are again exposed to your pup, the immune system will have an opinion, and you may find that your pup is sensitive to grasses or spring pollens or fall pollens or the mold that occurs during the spring melt off on your lawn.

Please keep us posted on June Bug!

Hi again!

I need some encouragement in keeping the faith with these natural remedies...

So I was curious how long it took your Frenchie pup to recover from mange using Ted's remedy (and how bad was yours)?

Also, how long does the healing crisis last ... I know it is supposed to get worse before it gets better but it seems like it's spreading (I'm guessing that the mites are angry and moving from a previously infected spot to a new one close by??)

Just trying to manage my expectations!

Thank you! Lexi

Hey Lexi!

Demodex typically takes months to resolve. I want to say my puppy took 12 weeks of treatment. She had generalized demodex according to the definitions, but I think the definitions are kinda screwy, ie if on the face only it is localized. Mine had spots on the face, on the legs, on the trunk - more than 6 that I recall; I am wishing now I took photos! I gave her 2-3 baths the first two weeks and then weekly thereafter. Mine got worse before it got better, so much so I ordered a bunch of other remedies *just in case*. By the time the other remedies arrived in the mail I could clearly see the remedy was working after all, so I did not use the additional remedies I had purchased. If I had to recommend a second remedy, I would mix up sulpher flowers in castor oil and apply that to the spots... but I really think you should hold off on and just wait one more week.

There appear to be some species or strains of demodex mites that do not respond to this remedy. However make sure you are doing it right; making a saturated solution by adding so much borax that the grains of borax do not fully dissolve; treat the entire dog, not just select parts; dip your dog in the solution for at least 10 minutes straight, working the grainy solution down to the skin, and then put in a crate with no bedding and allow to drip dry for half an hour - after that I let them out and towel them off and work the grains of borax out of their coat; it is like they run around the house leaving 'sand' all over when the dried borax falls off.

It sounds as if a secondary staph infection may have set in; if you wish to stay with the holistic as opposed to getting antibiotics, use the Staph remedy daily if not twice daily. Boost immune system with Vitamin C, Echinacea and Zinc. It is advised to keep demodex dogs calm and stress free, however I am not sure that is possible with a 5 month old puppy.

Was your puppy on a regular worming schedule from the breeder? Being parasite free on the inside will help.

It is not likely that the mites are migrating to infect new spots, rather, the populations of mites were already present in what appeared to be unaffected areas and the treatment is causing those populations of mites to die, and the decomposing bodies of the mites are releasing toxins which are irritating, causing the itching, redness and pustules.

Thanks again, Theresa!

When I got her, she did have worms (the breeder had her on an OTC mild puppy wormer). I noticed her stools were mucousy and sure enough, when I looked closer, there were tapeworm segments. I got a strong, broad spectrum dewormer (one dose) from the vet and she passed dead tape worm segments and one HUGE roundworm. I wonder if that dewormer/chemical made her immune system even more susceptible??

Anyway, now she's worm free, but demodex full. :/

I am definitely making the remedy right and I keep her in the sink and keep squeezing it over her skin for about 20 minutes each time and let her air dry. Her oldest spots seem to be getting better - at least they're not continuing to have new red bumps/pustules. But other spots have lost more hair/spread and are all ridden with the red spots and little pustules.

I am doing the anti-staph (really dries it out) and I recently discovered Homeopet First Aid ointment (has all sorts of great things in it, echinacea, sulphur, chamomile, etc. in mineral oil) and that is helping quite a bit.

It's just tough keeping the faith during this healing crisis. If yours had the healing crisis/die off effect, how long did it last?

And should I keep doing the aggressive Ted treatment (3x/week) for more than two weeks? Or what should be my indicator to back off to the once/week schedule?

Thanks again! Lexi

Thanks again, Theresa!

When I got her, she did have worms (the breeder had her on an OTC mild puppy wormer). I noticed her stools were mucousy and sure enough, when I looked closer, there were tapeworm segments. I got a strong, broad spectrum dewormer (one dose) from the vet and she passed dead tape worm segments and one HUGE roundworm. I wonder if that dewormer/chemical made her immune system even more susceptible??

Anyway, now she's worm free, but demodex full. :/

I am definitely making the remedy right and I keep her in the sink and keep squeezing it over her skin for about 20 minutes each time and let her air dry. Her oldest spots seem to be getting better - at least they're not continuing to have new red bumps/pustules. But other spots have lost more hair/spread and are all ridden with the red spots and little pustules.

I am doing the anti-staph (really dries it out) and I recently discovered Homeopet First Aid ointment (has all sorts of great things in it, echinacea, sulphur, chamomile, etc. in mineral oil) and that is helping quite a bit.

It's just tough keeping the faith during this healing crisis. If yours had the healing crisis/die off effect, how long did it last?

And should I keep doing the aggressive Ted treatment (3x/week) for more than two weeks? Or what should be my indicator to back off to the once/week schedule?

So I wanted to specify how much worse it's gotten after 2 weeks of Ted's remedy 3x/week:

Existing spots are all red, bumpy and have pustules.

New spots have popped up - her biggest area on her chest is spreading down her entire arm to her toe. Three new separate spots have popped up in independent areas, and the spot on her head is spreading as well.

Does this sound normal? Or should I be worried her mites aren't reacting to Ted's remedy?

So far everything has gotten worse...some of her older spots may be getting better - they don't have as many red bumps and are darker in color. But other than that, it's spreading and new spots are popping up (all with red skin and bumps.)

I'm just feeling anxious...ah!

Thanks, Lexi

Hey Lexi!

After re-reading all your posts and updates, to me it sounds like June Bug has a systemic bacterial infection going on and very likely needs antibiotics. The remedy is working on the mites, but the secondary bacterial infection is fighting from the inside out, so the topical solutions will only work so far. You can go the 100% natural route and possibly avoid dosing antibiotics, but I think you would have an entirely bald very unhappy dog if you do down that path.

If this were my dog I would throw in the towel and see the vet. They will prescribe an antibiotic, which IMHO is appropriate; this means stopping the probiotics for the duration of the antibiotic treatment [2-3 weeks]. They will prescribe an antimiticide such as daily oral Ivermectin which is a human drug; at this juncture I consider dosing it for 5 days. I would NOT use Amitraz dips, which are both spendy and IMHO highly toxic, or Milbemycin Oxime.

I would additionally consider worming her for roundworm at least 1 more time if not 2-3 more times as the worming schedule you outlined was not sufficient for roundworm.

I know you are feeding good groceries but you may wish to try RAW or switch to a diet that has zero grains and potatoes to help starve the mange mites from the inside out. I would consider adding 500mg vitamin C and echinacea to the mix am and pm. I would also consider using homeopathic Sulpher.

I would back off on the dipping in the remedy to 1x week, and consider doing a essential oil of lavender and Neem oil rinse on the other days to help calm the skin. The Homeopet salve sounds like a winner, and I would use that on the spots that ask for it or the home made combo you were using prior.

Thank you as always, Theresa...they have a gem in you!

I threw the towel in this morning after feeling June Bug's very enlarged lymph nodes under her jaw late last night and after reading your post this morning...

Loved my vet today (new vet). After a "taping" of all her spots, it came back exhaustingly (depressingly) positive for staph and cocci. She prescribed dewormer (2 doses over the next 2 weeks) and antibiotics only and told me to keep at the supplement immune building, the benzoyl peroxide/sulfur/salicylic acid baths with my DermabenSS shampoo (but not more Ted's for a week at least). She didn't want to do any Ivermectin until we got the secondary bacterial infection under control. I really respected this...she said she wants to get the discomfort under control and give it a few months before we put the anti-miticide chemicals in her. So after I get the bacterial infections under control, she wants me to try again with Ted's.

I have been feeding a no grain/no potato food source (NutriSource kibble) with Alaskan fish oils (live the closest to it! ), coconut oil and probiotics along with all immune building supplements.

And because I've done the lavender/neem/tea tree, etc., we decided with the antibiotics to keep things simple and only treat skin topically with coconut oil.

I will certainly keep you posted and thank you again for all your help...it has been much appreciated and I hope our conversation can help someone else!

Forgot to mention that the taping results came back negative for yeast, which is a relief in some way. At least we're just battling bacteria...!

Lexi

Hey Lexi!

Looks like you scored big time with the new vet! My vet also utilizes tapping, among other approaches. So glad you are on the right track with June Bug!

Hi there,

So we're on day 4 of antibiotics and things are already looking a bit better.

However, my gut is saying that I shouldn't take a break from treating the mites or I am losing precious time since I do believe I was going through a major die-off.

I think the hydrogen peroxide mix was too irritating and read that there is a Ted's version using apple cider vinegar as the borax carrier...if this is correct, do you have a recipe for that? And experience with it?

Thanks again!

Lexi

Hey Lexi!

I agree with you, but not sure you need to act *now*; I think you could hold off a few more days to allow the skin to heal. How many treatments with Ted's remedy did June Bug get? 2-3 the first week, and then once per week up until just a few days ago?

You only need to dip once per week - this in keeping with the life cycle of the mite. Can you follow this up with a moisturizing bath/treatment an hour or two after the dip? I would suspect with her skin healing up now that the secondary bacterial infection is being treated, her skin would be less irritated with the 1% hydrogen peroxide.

I have not used the recipe with vinegar, although I know I read about it - I just can't find it, particularly now that everything seems to be sorted out ;-). What I have read - what I could find - is that vinegar is likely to be far more irritating/will sting. I have used the solution with cuts on my own hands and also done vinegar rinses on my dogs and the vinegar does sting the raw skin whereas the 1% hydrogen peroxide did not -this from my own personal experience.

All that said I was able to find this for you:

Posted by Kc (Newtown, Ct) on 04/05/2010

[YEA] It worked!!! Thank you Ted! I was so stressed out when my dog started to show signs of mange. I made this remedy using 1 part Apple cider vinager (AC vinager instead of peroxide because I didnt want to "highlight" her black fur) to 2 parts water, and added borax laundry detergent until it wouldnt dissolve anymore. I put her in the tub and splashed on the solution until she was soaked, no gloves needed. I used a cottonball for around her eyes. I then washed every pillowcase, blanket, and rug that I could and sprinkled the borax powder all over the rest including the couch. Left that overnight and vacumed it up the next day. It was winter outside and I admit it wasnt fun for anyone to have a soaking wet dog running around, but it was worth it. Immediately the itching stopped. Within the first few day, I could see improvement. I did this intense house cleaning and borax soak with her once a week for 4 weeks and In 5 WEEKS it was completely gone! Thank you thank you thank you. Super easy, SO MUCH HEALTHIER, and wicked cheap!

- See more at: https://www.earthclinic.com/pets/dog_mange_cure7.html#sthash.47KmmrB8.dpuf

Thanks again, Theresa.

I did Ted's 3x for the first two weeks and she had her last one 5 days ago. So I will wait a few more days and if she's scab free, I'll give the ACV one a try. If not, I'll stick with the hydrogen peroxide so she doesn't get stung.

I'll keep you posted!

Thank you,

Lexi

Hi Theresa,

So I wanted to post an update on June Bug. We had her on antibiotics for about 5 weeks which helped a lot, continued to do Ted's during the first 3 weeks of antibiotics and then I just backed off and stuck with benzoyl peroxide shampoos 2-3 times a week.

I also did a grain free diet, Standard Process Canine Immune Support supplement, Alaska Fish Oils, NUPRO supplement and sardines annnnnd...took her in for scrapings a couple days ago and all of the spots came back negative for mites! They only saw a few from 2 scrapings on her face, but it looks like we are winning the battle doing it all naturally (aside from the antibiotics)!

Her skin was pretty ravaged by the mites (BIG blackheads in some spots and little superficial blackheads all over the previously affected spots and I'd say she lost 30% of her hair all together), but hair has started growing back at a fast pace these last couple of weeks.

I almost gave up multiple times and went with Ivermectin or some other chemical, but so glad I stuck with Ted's and the immune building diet protocol! It can work, and it has been for June Bug.

Thanks again, Lexi

My husband doesn't believe in bathing dogs so our Lab/mix has only had 2 or 3 in the 7 years since we rescued him. So, here we are in 20 degree weather, so I can't bath outdoors; how do you even get a 60 lb lab in the tub and get him to stay there so you can treat his skin; it started on his face around his eyes and itchy ears and then spread to his belly and between his foot pads; he's constantly scratching/chewing......suggestions? Carla

I used to bath my huge pit bull in a plastic or tin or even metal portable big tub, you might be able to buy at either Lowes or Home Depot another time we used a kids plastic swimming pool, then we either did him in the cellar or put a huge absorbent blanket in the kitchen and try to wash him/her.

Good Luck & have fun. :-)

Hey Carla!

Have you taken your dog to the vet for a diagnosis? Demodectic mange in a 7 year old dog usually means something deeper is going on. Sarcoptic mange is something your dog can catch from wild animals, and would require his entire living space to be decontaminated to avoid catching it again. However what you describe could also be allergies, which commonly develop in dogs as they age.

As for bathing options, it certainly would be good to start with Ted's mange dip to see if the itching your dog improves. There are places you can take your dog that offer grooming services and some offer DIY dog washing space. Check out your local [and often big chain] pet food stores to see if they offer grooming or DIY dog washing.

Additionally, what you feed your dog can make all the difference; if you are feeding Ol' Roy or Purina then a grocery upgrade is needed; look for grain free diets and expect to feed for 6 weeks before you see improvement. Consider adding probiotics - good bacteria - in the form of yogurt or capsules from the refrigerator section of the health food store.

Lastly, consider alkalizing your dog's drinking water. Add 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 liter of water and have this as the only source of drinking water for your dog. Mix it up fresh and only offer when the baking soda has stopped fizzing. After 1 week you can reduce to 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda, and after 2 weeks you can reduce to a maintenance dose of 1/4 teaspoon in to 1 liter of water.

Hey Debbie!

I have seen the blackheads on some of my worse demodex cases, so I would agree that the blackheads are dead mites/reaction to decomposing mites.

Demodex in a 3 year old dog is a concern, as demodex typically is associated with an undeveloped immune system. That you have it in a 3 year old may indicate an undiagnosed underlying condition such as hypothyroid.

The sores on the vulva sound like yeast complications - wiping with Ted's anti-fungal/anti-staph will help, or straight Milk of Magnesia or Apple Cider Vinegar. You may wish to alkalize your dog's drinking water - to combat the yeast internally - by giving 1 teaspoon of baking soda into 1 liter of water; this is a crisis dose to be given for 5 days and then drop down to one half or one quarter teaspoon to one liter of water.

Thanks, Theresa, for your help. I'm sure you're right about the yeast - have started using the vinegar as you suggested, will try the bicarb too.

She's actually about 7 1/2 y/o - was about 4 when we got her (riddled with demodex, with a strong kind of salami smell which she no longer has). I have had thyroid test, but only the basic one, not the one recommended by Jean Dodds (UK vet unaware of it) - test was pretty normal. But she does show quite a few of the signs e.g sensitive to temperature, dry coat shedding all the time (and the dry eye...).

Ted also has a wonderful remedy for secondary and staph infection on EC. Theresa, one of our contributors, has always given very explicit instructions which are very helpful. You can find it easily on EC website, repeatedly.

Unfortunately, after paying a sum at one vet, for many people there is a dearth of funds. This is where research on EC is so valuable. Ted's remedy has great acclaim as is does work but when there is a secondary infection and the vet has not been forthcoming with help, Ted again has the secondary, bacterial, staph infection remedy which is easy to prepare and to find online at EC.

Ivermectin, according to natural doctors, is a cancer causing substance. Some people use it also for deworming but I have myself experienced at a shelter, that it doesn't work.

Theresa, one of our frequent contributors, has time and again given out the formula, saving much time in research for others. It just takes time researching which again saves $$. Good luck with your charge. Namaste, Om

Than you for this information. As I said, I try to use natural remedies whenever possible, in this case it just didn't work. I hope, once we are rid of the d. mange this time, it will never return but I will keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide and borax just in case as I feel the remedy may have worked if we had caught the mange in its early stages (before the first useless vet got involved! ). I will look up the bacterial infection remedy too as I absolutely HATE using antibiotics but we were just so desperate!

Between our many vet visits, treatments and diet changes to boost our pup's immune system, those pesky mites have cost us a fortune! But our little furball is worth it :)

I love this site and will definitely be checking out the secondary infection treatment, thanks!

Hello, I have given my dog 3 baths in a week and followed the instructions. I see that his skin is like getting worse. Is this what it supposed to happen? I am about to give up and just take him to the vet but I have 3 dogs and my dog who has the mange is only 4 months old and we just rescued him and this is his second health problem. We are trying to save money since we just spent about thousand dollars for our 3 dogs and we can't afford right now to spend hundreds of dollars again. So would it look like it is getting worse before you see improvement on his skin? He has more bald skin now and getting more bites from mites and red. I just feel sorry for him. How can I send pictures or attach pictures here? I would appreciate any input or help please. Thank you.

Hey Leya!

When treating mange it will often look worse once you start treating before it looks better.

Reason being, when you treat you are causing a rapid die off of the mites. The mites die deep in the hair follicle and decompose. It is the decomposing mite bodies that some dogs react to so even though the mites are not biting any more, it looks worse as your dog's skin works on a cell level to remove the decomposing mites.

Three dips in one week is enough for now; you could try soothing bathes with a lavender and oatmeal based shampoo [you could make this at home, google for recipe ideas] and you could also try Dr. Bronner's soaps - use the lavender one.

You should also consider supporting your dog's immune system with additional vitamin C, and try a weeks worth of Goldenseal, and also 2 weeks worth of Echinacea. So dose all three each meal, and monitor your results. Immune compromised animals often benefit from probiotics; you can do yogurt, but a better way would be RAW sauerkraut, either bought from the refrigerator section or made at home - 1 tbsp. each feeding.

Try to keep your pup in as stress free an environment as possible. With puppies this might be impossible, but whatever you can do to remove stress helps.

If you don't see a marked improvement in 3-5 days, if crazy itching develops, you may be dealing with a secondary skin infection and likely should see the vet.

Please report back!

Hey Ramelle!

I've used plenty of this remedy but have never tried to store it. My **guess** is that the solution is active as long as the hydrogen peroxide is active - so perhaps 24 - 48 hours in a securely sealed container.

Hey Machel!

From what you shared it appears your dogs have sarcoptic mange. The life cycle of the mite is 4 weeks; you might want to dip twice a week for the first 4 weeks just to be sure to catch any newly hatched mites and continue dipping once per week for another month or so after.

I see no problem taking them to the lake- sun and exercise are healing, but for sure bathe and dip them afterwards - to clean off any allergens, and to prevent another outbreak /catching it again.

Hey Pam!

The life spam of a demodex mite is 18-24 days. What this means is that you should continue to dip your dog for another 4 weeks after everything looks cured - so generally for 12 weeks. If you see good results you can go to just 1 dip per week. When you use the borax/hydrogen peroxide, the hydrogen peroxide acts as a penetrant to deliver the borax into the hair follicles; the borax is the miticide and its the borax that kills the mites. When the mites die, they stay right where they are in the hair follicle and dissolve; it is the decaying mites that can cause irritation. You may find that the appearance of the skin worsens before it gets better. You may find it helpful to make up a gallon batch of the remedy and simply stand your dog in a wash tub for 10 minutes to better treat the feet, as pododemidicosis can be very stubborn. Just be sure to follow the directions to a T - enough borax to the point it no longer dissolves and no rinsing or drying - let her air dry without any bedding in her crate for half an hour before allowing her out to shake off the excess and finish air drying.

You can address the flaky skin a few ways. Topical application of coconut oil with a few drops of essential oil of lavender; orally dosing with Oil of Primrose - 1 capsule am and pm; and you can also dose the coconut oil or other such oil such as salmon oil in the chow am and pm - one half teaspoon.

I have been making enough of the solution to put in a small cooler and I just set her in that, the solution covers her back and use a wash cloth to wet her head, neck and ears. I let her in it for at least 10 minutes and then take her for a walk around the yard in the warm sun to dry her. She is on Derma Form for her dry skin, it's Omega 3's and Omega 6's and vitamins, she is also still on antibiotics for the pustules. She only itches her neck when she has her collar on so that comes off in the house.

Hey Pam!

The pustules sound like a secondary staph infection - you might consider Ted's Anti-fungal/Anti-staph solution for one of your twice weekly dips.

Anti fungal/staph skin solution - you will need:

Milk of Magnesia [magnesium hydroxide]
Epsom salts [magnesium sulfate]
Borax [sodium tetraborate]
1% hydrogen peroxide solution

Mix 1 tbsp of MOM with 1 tbsp epsom salt and 1 tbsp borax into 1-1/2 cups of 1% hydrogen peroxide. Apply and do not rinse. This solution should knock out any staph infection or yeast infection going on in the skin.

Additionally the addition of 1 teaspoon of baking soda in one half liter of drinking water [this is a crisis dose] may also help and will calm problem skin in a matter of hours. Once the skin is under control, for long term maintenance use 1/2 tsp of baking soda per liter of water. If the 1 teaspoon of baking soda into one half liter of water tastes too strange for your dog, try diluting it to 1 teaspoon to three liters of water for the first day, then increase to one and one half teaspoon into three liters on the second day and so on. The crisis dose should be given 5-7 days before going on to the maintenance dose.

I wish I could add to her drinking water but she doesn't drink! I have to give her water and/or formula with a dropper. She refuses to drink anything from a bowl. I just now in the last month can get her to lick at the formula in a shallow dish but she won't touch water.

I will try the other formula even tho she is on antibiotics but this is the third antibiotic she has been on and this one doesn't seem to be working either.

Hey Pam!

Sounds like you have a really, really smart puppy on your hands! My BIL's dog would not eat out of a bowl for years and years - only ate if the food was on the carpet! Needless to say, he shampooed the carpet frequently!

Why is your dog drinking formula?

If you are feeding soft, canned or wet food water consumption will go down. I would try to get your dog to drink the baking soda water 3 x day - use a 10+ ml syringe if you have it and just tip her head back, put the nozzle of the syringe in the corner of her mouth and slowly depress the plunger. Some will drip out, but she will be swallowing some as well. You might also consider using a hanging water bottle - Lixit makes one for small dogs - and hang that in her kennel filled with plain water; she might surprise you by taking to it without any instruction!

When we got her she was 2 pounds and very weak, our Vet called her a "failure to thrive" puppy and he put her on formula because it was high in vitamins and proteins and she needed the nourishment. After 3 days she started coming around a little and that's when we started the canned puppy food. I found out that the people that had her kept her kenneled all the time and fed her hard food and water from a large water bowl. I heard she almost drowned in the water bowl and she is still deathly afraid of anything wet in a large bowl. I have tried the water bottle, she won't touch it. I can make a small amount of the baking soda solution and give it to her with the syringe, she'll take it then. And yes, she eats soft puppy food, I have to have it in my hand before she will eat it, but just recently she will take it off the floor. She has a really hard time with hard food of any kind, I keep trying to get her to eat it but mostly she just leaves it sit. She has a double row of teeth, both upper and lower and has difficulty eating, everything gets caught in her teeth. The Vet said she is not healthy enough to have them pulled and they won't touch her with this "mange". She will be 11 months in August but she is just starting to be a "puppy".

Pam from Shawano. Wi----- what I did about those skin flakes. I took a wash cloth soaked in diluted ACV. That needed done just a few times. It changes the ph and cleans the skin which can then regenerate. Only when that was clear, did I use VCO rubbing it in well. If the skin is bare VCO mixed with cold pressed castor oil works very well. I use it on my face and hair. When things begin to look good, spray with orange essential oil which is also used as a household cleaner. It sure kills any buggers and is to be preferred over poisoning blood for the fleas. It works well for me.

Namaste, Om

Pam from Shawano. Wi ----three antibiotics! Now it will be very difficult to get the dog back on par. Believe me, I speak from experience. When the precious immune system is beaten down as it were with a sledge hammer which is the allopathic method, superbugs, fungi, candida find the door wide open. Recent research also says that cancer can then make its debut.

The immune system is GOD given and logic says to kill every bacteria, good or bad, cannot be holistic. I lost some rescue cats that way when I was not enlightened enough.

I would get off the antibiotic - they are anti life and give pre and probiotics daily to boost the immune system. Just prescribing antibiotics freely and leave it at that is tantamount to "I do not know how to deal or heal". Next one, please.

Health is a business, think about it and take charge, doing research on EC or wherever you find inspiration.

By now antibiotics and pharma meds are found in all the water ways, causing new diseases. The planet is polluted by them.

I hope you understand. Namaste, Om

What is ACV? And what is a pre and probiotics. Please talk in terms I can understand. I have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, I will stop the antibiotics but you have to understand my pup's immune system probably never worked correctly. This in one of the reasons she has all these problems...

Hey Pam!

Thanks for the background info! What breed is your dog - is she a tiny toy breed?

If this were my dog I would change a few things. I would hang the doggy water bottle or a few of them around at her level so she can encounter them in her environment and get used to seeing them. Then I would spice them up by putting attractive toys on top of them so she is drawn to them for the toy alone. And most important, don't pay any attention to the or her checking them out - turn your back and ignore! I would also provide a few interactive treat balls that you can fill with cubed cheese, vitamin treats or kibble. These toys will engage her brain and nose and give her an activity that doesn't require your hand for her to eat.

I would also give her a nearly raw, meaty bone. Depending on her size a chicken thigh bone would work, or pork chop bone, pork rib bone, or T-bone steak bone. If she is a larger breed then I prefer beef rib bones. I make these by baking the rack of ribs at 350 for half an hour; this leaves the bone raw in the center, the meat rare and the outside is browned up and flavorful. Given her 'shark mouth' working on the bone [trim most but not all of the meat off] may loosen retained teeth while she flosses and tones up her gums - and also the protein in the meat won't hurt either!

Hey Pam!

Not Om, but since I am online, ACV is apple cider vinegar. The therapeutic stuff is raw, unfiltered, organic, and contains live cultures, ie 'with the mother'.

Probiotics are the beneficial bacteria that normally populate a healthy gut. Three rounds of antibiotics has decimated your dog's healthy internal flora, so you need to introduce new bacteria to repopulate her gut. There are special pet products you can buy - certain strains of acidophilus, but I find it is easiest to just go to the refrigerated section at the health food store and but what is on sale! And then rotate the brands so that you provide a variety of strains of bacteria. If nothing else a trip to the drug store for 'Shiff's Digestive Advantage' would be a start. Sprinkle on the wet food when you feed it - but wait adding it to her meals until she is off the antibiotic she is on.

She is a Min Pin - so small breed dog. I give her plain yogurt so that should help a little, will see what other kinds of food are "pre and pro bionic" She likes people food. I tried the water bottles all over but my other puppy thinks they are her toys and knocks them off. Plus there is a small water dispenser for the other pup and Josie won't go near it. I am giving her the soda water from a syringe a couple times a day and am going to do the other treatment tomorrow. I took her off the antibiotic, it wasn't working anyway.

I will cook a chicken thigh tomorrow and give her the bone - she likes lamb ears to chew on and she has lots of toys she chews. I think she actually lost a tooth yesterday so I am hoping that all those teeth are puppy teeth and she will lose them eventually, that is what the Vet thinks also. Since she is so far behind for her age maybe she is finally "catching up".

She is so much more active since I started the Mange treatment, I am thinking she is finally starting to feel better. That other person told me to do the ACV treatment but I am going to wait on that for a while if I do both the treatments (the ACV and the one for her pustules) I won't know what one worked. Besides she is really not "flaky" you have to either brush her or use your fingernail so scrap them loose. That's why I though maybe it was the dead mange coming off. The ones that come out are long, thin pieces and my fingers and the brush feels oily. If I had a microscope I would bet they were the dead mange. It doesn't look like a "dandruff" type flake.

Hey Pam!

I don't know what you are scraping off with your nails but it isn't dead demodex mites; I wonder if your vet could check them out? Scrape some out and drop them off for the vet to look at under the microscope - I'd be curious to know. Oily is usually seborrhea.

If Josie is super playful - what mini-pin isn't? - then lot's of tug-o-war is in order. A simple rag or old sock and you are set. You can also teach 'take it' and 'drop it' while you work those teeth loose!

Another thought on the water bowl would be a cookie sheet. The challenge would be to find gradually smaller and smaller sheets, and then to increase the depth of the sheets gradually until you go from jelly roll to brownie pan.

The yogurt is the right idea, but IMHO you pack more bang for the buck going straight for the encapsulated form of probiotic/acidophilus.

What is IMHO?

We do play tug of war with a sock and ropes. I use a small very swallow bowl now for the formula, which she will drink but if I put water in that bowl she still won't touch it. She smells it then walks away never to return....

Hey Pam!

IMHO = In My Honest/Humble Opinion....

Is there an address I can send pictures, maybe if you see her you'll have a better idea as to what I am talking about.

Do show the retained teeth if you can :-)

When we got her this is what her skin looked like. No hair on neck and belly. her eyes were half open and the whiteish hair on her cheeks and the tips of her ears. The whiteish hair is what I was referring to when I said I can use my fingernail and scrap it loose. Then is almost looks like dandruff but it's oily.

This is her neck area today - notice ears are healed and eyes are open - less white around them and the cheeks have gotten better but the whitish stuff is still there.

I can't seem to get a good picture of the spots on her back - they were pussy, bloody pimple type spots and then the hair was gone on those spots, doesn't seem to be growing back in either.

Anybody have any idea what this could be, if it's not Demodectic Mange? She does not itch unless she has collar on. Any ideas as to how to treat this? The Mange treatments seems to be helping, the white areas around her face and eyes are going away but the neck area seems to be worse. Sorry could not get any clear pictures of her double rows of teeth both top and bottom, she refused to cooperate!

Hey Pam!

Sounds like your min-pin has seborrhea:

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-seborrhea

Your dog's case could be considered 'secondary seborrhea' because it appears in connection with the demodex.

The bloody pustules on the back could be allergies or could be staph. If the scabs are healing over, I would give it time for the hair to come back.

I would certainly continue with the baking soda water as alkalizing often helps overcome some allergy symptoms.

Hey Pam!

I would offer the raw/rare beef rib bones for the shark mouth; chicken thigh bones are good for the molars, but for pulling out retained shark teeth you need sinew and cartilage, so give a beef bone or T bone if you can.

I think the itching with the collar is normal; I would make sure the collar is smooth on the inside, so there is no irritation caused by the collar. Do keep in mind that any attention you pay to her when she scratches only serves to reinforce the behavior, so ignore her when she has the collar on - she may quit the behavior in a few days if you simply ignore it. Can't hurt to try!

And I think you may be dealing with secondary seborrhea - I posted on it below.

Hi Pam --- it may be a simple thing such as disinfecting the collar and immersing it in the mite treatment.

Hope this helps.

Namaste, Om

So how do I treat the 'secondary seborrhea'. I gave her the Anti staph/anti fungal treatment, should I continue with this? I am also doing the Mange treatment 2 times a week now (it seems to be helping). I bathe her with medicated shampoo and have been rinsing with the diluted ACV. The sores are healed - just no hair yet. Plus she has not gotten any new ones since I started the Mange treatments. I have been giving her water with baking soda also. I gave her a chicken thigh bone and she shredded it in minutes. Will look for beef bone, all the stores here get boneless meat so no one has beef bones, even the restaurants use the boneless meat. Will keep looking for beef bone.

Hey Pam!

Please read up on seborrhea in dogs:

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-seborrhea

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/integumentary_system/seborrhea/overview_of_seborrhea.html

You mention bathing your dog in medicated shampoo; depending on the shampoo, you may already be doing what is needed to treat the seborrhea. If this were my dog I might continue with the anti-staph dips for another couple of weeks just to ensure the skin is truly clear from any staph or yeast infection.

The beef ribs don't sell as well as the pork ribs, so most grocery stores do not regularly carry them, but most stores are able to place special orders with their suppliers - or you might just cut to the chase and see if Pingels on Main Street carries them.

Hello Pam! I feed my dog raw bones. I have given lamb and beef bones and plan to incorporate chicken as well. A holistic vet in my area has suggested starting dogs on chicken necks first, especially the smaller breeds. Feed them raw; there is no risk of salmonella to the dog (only to humans). I found the bones at my local farmer's market. Check with your local farmer's market.