★★★★★
Unfortunately, right around the time, my mom got stage 4 cancer last year (a very stressful, anxious, and upsetting situation) I started to not be able to sleep. Not just deep, but... well... at all. It was a double-edged sword. I couldn't sleep at night - I would just lay in bed doing nothing. I tried tea, warm milk, valerian, melatonin, you name it, I probably did it. Because I was unable to sleep at night I would finally fall asleep around 10 am to 12 pm, and I would sleep all day. Between insomnia and sleeping all day, this sent me into a downward spiral. When they say you NEED sleep and NEED proper sleep, they ain't kidding. It made me irritable, MORE depressed, MORE anxious. I was a mess. While all this was going on my mom was getting ready for surgery to get cancer removed, came home to me and I was her caregiver 24/7. I had to be awake every 20 minutes to give her medicine, pain killers, make sure she was okay, make sure her airway was clear, feed her through her feeding tube, change her bandages, help her go to the bathroom, etc. Great for someone with insomnia however, the caregiving continued through the day - when I would usually sleep. I was sleeping MAYBE an hour a day between being awake and taking care of her. After she got better I still could not sleep. I thought maybe it was my circadian rhythm or some psychological thing. Then I stopped caring and just wanted help.
My mom loves Earth Clinic, so I use it a lot. About 3 months ago I saw Art's insomnia protocol article and did as I was told. I take 5mg of melatonin, 15mg of zinc (couldn't find anything lower), and 24 sprays of Magnesium Oil every night at 10:15 pm. By 11:15 pm I am very relaxed and calm. By 1125 I am in bed. By 1130 asleep. Maybe sooner. LOL. Even when I get up to go to the bathroom, I get in bed and go RIGHT back to sleep. I don't care how it works, I just know it DOES work for me. The great thing? Since I sleep now, I wake up at 9 am every morning and am awake all through the day until around 8 pm when I usually have my first yawn like a normal person lol.
Anyway, I know this might not work for everyone, but for me personally, it worked like a charm. Thank you. THANK YOU. THANK YOUUUUUU! IDK if I will have to do this forever, but right now? I don't care. I'm just happy I get to sleep and have a life.
★★★★★
I drink an 8oz. glass about an hour before going to bed, and it worked even better than the melatonin, I read that Tart Cherry juice actually contains melatonin......all I can say is, I have never slept better in my life, if there is a bathroom visit, there is no problem going back to sleep. I now buy the Tart Cherry Concentrate put 2tablespoons into an 8oz glass of water.
Hope it will somebody else.
Vitamin D
★★★★★
Since the study for this combination of supplements was fairly long, I imagine that many EC readers did not have time to read the whole study, so I thought I would highlight an important point shown in this study as well as other studies and meta analyses. In most of these studies it was clearly shown that there is an inverse relationship between vitamin D serum level (25 OH d) and sleep issues or to say that a little differently, as the vitamin D level declines, sleep issues increase and as 25 OH d serum level rises, sleep issues decline.
Overall, this is just one of many reasons to make sure your 25 OH d serum level is replete!
Art
★★★★★
Art
Please keep in mind that the post I put up for sleep, did not pertain to melatonin by itself and by picking just melatonin out of the three supplements and vitamin D, you are taking melatonin out of context for the purpose of sleep as reported in the original study.
In the study that the post I wrote was based on, they tested the combination of melatonin, magnesium and zinc plus suggested bringing your vitamin D level into the reference range because vitamin D has an inverse relationship with sleep issues. Lower vitamin d levels correlate with increased sleep issues while higher vitamin D levels correlate with decreased sleep issues.
Of importance, this was a placebo controlled double blind study, representing a better quality study.
Regarding restless leg syndrome (RLS), the original post had nothing to do with RLS which should be treated on its own and not count on your sleep aid to resolve that health issue too!
One of the most popular remedies for RLS on EC, is magnesium, and zinc may offer benefit also. The point being that this particular combination is not the same as melatonin alone and the three supplements are synergistic with each other meaning that the combination is more effective than any of the three alone at improving sleep! Taking melatonin by itself is not at all the same as taking this combination and even if you do have RLS, the magnesium component of this sleep combination is likely to help both RLS and sleep! My own testing has shown magnesium oil (MO) to be helpful for RLS while other posters have found benefit with oral magnesium supplements.
You said melatonin constricts blood flow based on the study you mentioned, but the following human study is more precise in saying just the opposite of what you said. This is a direct quote from the following study:
'Compared with placebo, melatonin significantly increased peripheral blood flow, as measured by distal to proximal skin temperature gradient and finger pulse volume.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14671201/
This study also mentioned that melatonin has no effect on cerebral blood flow.
Again, taking melatonin out of the context of this supplement combination, is a mistake because magnesium can act as an acetylcholinesterase agonist while melatonin alone can not! This is probably one more reason why this combination did so well in the placebo controlled double blind study!
So as you can see, melatonin alone is not comparable to the three supplements used in the study to improve sleep and bringing your vitamin D level up well into the reference range is likely to also be additive in terms of sleep improvement.
Art
Magnesium
Magnesium L Threonate is much less likely to cause diarrhea than most other forms.
Art
Melatonin, Zinc, Magnesium Oil
I am glad that the combination worked so well to help you get a restful nights sleep regularly! Thank you for taking the time to come back and share your experience as this helps the EC community to know how the listed remedies are helpful in alleviating what ever health problem you may be having. I wish more people came back to describe how different remedies that they have found on EC have worked for them.
Art
Liquid Melatonin
★★★★★
Magnesium
Melatonin, B6
★★★★★
On the other hand, for the low dose of melatonin used in this sleep aid combination, I have found that the use of melatonin that has B6 in it adds to the effectiveness of this combo!
If you are deficient in B6, it can contribute to insomnia. B-6 also helps with the absorption of melatonin, which is poorly absorbed, so for the above combo, a 5 mg melatonin supplement that also contains B6 is more useful to me for sleep!
Only a small change to the original combo, but more effective for me for sleep!
Here is an Amazon link to one melatonin product that contains 5 mg of melatonin plus 10 mg of vitamin B6.
When you look at the health benefits of this sleep aid combo, I am not only getting better sleep but also improving my overall health!
Art
Melatonin, 5-HTP, GABA, L-Theanine
★★★★★
I read a very interesting article by a sleep specialist in psychology today, and he recommended gaba and L-Theanine. GABA slows down the overactive obsessive part of the brain, and revives the more calming parts of the brain.
The second night I took GABA, I realized that I had been far less stressed all day, and was waking up less often
A month or so after I starting to take GABA, I added the L-Theanine, which works much the same way as GABA. I very soon noticed that I woke up fewer times and I fell back asleep much quicker. I still take melatonin and 5-HTP, and find I need to take a nap in the day far fewer times. My life is much happier now!
★★★★★
Magnesium
Vitamin D
I have only recently started this experiment about a month ago and sunset at that time was around 7:30 pm and now sunset is about 8:00 pm. This is the earliest I have ever taken melatonin because I was concerned about disrupting my circadian rhythm, but now that I have done it, I would not be too concerned if I tested as early as is useful for Sundowning. I think getting the early morning light exposure helps with the circadian rhythm alignment for giving another feedback signal to keep the internal clock on time and I try to do that regularly also.
Btw, I continue to find new uses for melatonin and have remained at 106+ mg/night for over 8 months now. I will likely do this much or more for the rest of my life.
There was a recent study that used 250 mg/day of melatonin to good effect so melatonin studies are finally pushing the envelope toward actual pharmacological dosing that is more likely to show the true value of melatonin to human and animal health. Doctor's should be properly trained in the use of melatonin as part of their training, it is a mistake not to do that. Even plants thrive on it!
On an unrelated note I am thinking of writing a post about a natural treatment that has not been previously discussed on EC to the best of my knowledge, but I think it is too controversial at this time. I feel certain it will be a game changer for many diseases that don't have highly effective treatments currently available, but that is another time.
Art
Vitamin D
Have you tried what I described in a recent post using melatonin with an earlier start in divided doses? That works very well for me and better than melatonin 123 as you are more closely mimicking the pineal glands release of melatonin.
For straight up insomnia, I would try medical marijuana before I would try prescription drugs for sleep. You will have to go with Indica not Sativa and a high THC content with low CBD content. I find that THC around 30+ is useful. If you have not used MM before start low and slow as it is very potent and it won't be a good thing if you take too much. If you smoke it or vape it, I would only take one hit to start and see how you react to it after a half hour. You can always take another hit after the half hour is up, but you definitely don't want to take too much!!!
Art
Melatonin, 5-HTP, GABA, L-Theanine
Long term use (months) of 5HTP may create problems for you as it will reduce dopamine and ultimately no longer work. Reducing dopamine is a bad idea. Here is a study that highlights this mid term problem with 5HTP:
It might be safer to select another sleep aid such as zinc, magnesium, valerian extract (smells bad), passionflower, lavender etc.
Art
Magnesium
Magnesium
The three forms of magnesium I named will all work for the purpose of acting as a sleep promoter. Magnesium Taurate, Magnesium L Threonate and Magnesium Glycinate. Magnesium Glycinate is the same as Magnesium Bisglycinate.
Of the three, Magnesium L Threonate is least likely to cause diarrhea followed by Magnesium Taurate, based on my own experience with all three forms. These two in particular, Magnesium L Threonate and Magnesium Taurate, have shown in studies to target the brain and taurine from Magnesium Taurate also crosses the blood brain barrier and has a calming effect. This is what I am currently using, Magnesium Taurate, but have used all three as well as many other forms of magnesium.
Magnesium L Threonate is lacking in human studies compared to most other forms of magnesium of which there are over 15 forms.
Art
Melatonin, Zinc, Magnesium Oil
Helps Hypothyroidism
Just a heads-up.
Vitamin D
★★★★★
The reason for doing this experiment was to try and replicate the natural release of melatonin by the pineal gland as daylight fades to night. What I found from this test is that my sleep was very significantly improved to more like when I was in my 30's! I even stopped the magnesium and zinc for this experiment to make sure that it was the melatonin that was causing this very significantly improved sleep. It was the staggered intake of melatonin that is causing this effect. The reason that I am certain of this is because on the nights that I have forgotten to stagger my dose and end up taking the total melatonin dose within two hours of bedtime, the extra improved sleep effect is lost.
Some of you may be thinking, but I only take 3 or 5 mg of melatonin before bed, how do I break that up into smaller doses each hour? Melatonin is available in 1/2 mg and 1 mg so this should make it possible.
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-melatonin-1-mg-300-capsules
I hope this is as helpful to others as it has been for me!
Art
Melatonin Side Effects
1. Melatonin constricts blood flow, so if your circulation is 'iffy', then it could get a lot worse: (from the study "Melatonin potentiates NE-induced vasoconstriction without augmenting cytostolic calcium concentration")
2. Melatonin worsens Restless Legs Syndrome (probably because of the vasoconstriction).
3. And melatonin inhibits the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, which breaks down acetylcholine. High acetylcholine levels can cause anxiety, irritability, muscle spasms, and even seizures.
I tried it for about a week...made my sleep much, much worse.
Vitamin D
Sincerely,
J.
Vitamin D
The melatonin 123 went like this. You determine the time you want to go to bed. For this example, let's say 11:00 pm. You take one third of your melatonin dose at 9:00 pm, one third at 10:00 pm and one third at 11:00 pm. I found this was more helpful for sleep than taking the full melatonin dose at 10:00 pm or 11:00 pm.
Now with this method I am testing, the sleep effect is much better for me, so I guess you could say that melatonin 123 was the prototype for this latest adjustment in dosing. Starting taking melatonin at 6:00 pm is earlier than I have previously taken it on a regular basis and for me it definitely works better for sleep.
Art
Liquid Melatonin
★★★★★
Best Type of Zinc
Vitamin D
Vitamin D
Art
Vitamin D
Have you tried experimenting with Niacin? At lower doses, you won't get a flush. People report sleeping very deeply when they take it at night (Bill Thompson, for example).
Vitamin D
We are all different and all you can do is try the CBD she is using, unless it is MM CBD in which case you can't.
If you can tolerate melatonin I would try the multiple divided doses starting at 6:00 pm that I wrote about in a recent post. It works very well for me.
Art
Vitamin D
That is what I used to do, now I start earlier at 6:00 pm and take a partial dose roughly every hour until I go to bed which is when I take the remainder of my dose.
I take at least 106 mg every night, so it is easy for me to have plenty of melatonin to cover the span until I go to bed. If I only take 5 mg of melatonin every night, I would have to use the 1/2 mg capsules in order for it to last until I go to bed. I take a 1/2 mg at 6:00 pm and then I take another 1/2 mg roughly every hour until I go to bed at which time I take however remaining capsules are left as my bedtime varies.
Art
Vitamin D
Btw, I currently take 132 mg of melatonin every night and have been since last year. Let us know if this helps your mom. Art
Magnesium
Helps Hypothyroidism
Thank you for the feedback! Could you say what the two brands are and which one worked for you?
Also, how does the sleep trio work for you?
Art
Vitamin D
Vitamin D
★★★★★
Magnesium
Magnesium has well known laxative effects. People with exquisitely sensitive guts cannot take that much magnesium at one time without it resulting in multiple trips to bathroom. Which results in interrupted sleep, just the opposite of intended effect ...
Art, can I use the magnesium spray instead? How many spray equal 225 mg magnesium?
1. Magnesium - 225 mg one hour before bed.
Thanks
Vitamin D
Always value your knowledge! What is the difference between this and the 123 Melatonin method that you posted previously?
Vitamin D
Vitamin D
Sincerely,
J.
Vitamin D
I'm taking 88 mg of instant release melatonin, 20 mg of timed release melatonin and a dropperful of California Poppy, still don't sleep. What are your thoughts on thyroid combined with food allergies + postmenopause causing insomnia? I need relief other than sleeping pills, but nothing has worked. My MG, B12, D3, etc are all good, mid to upper ranges. One thing, when I work out in the yard all day is the times I tend to sleep best (tho only 4-5 hours). I lift weights, etc, but nothing has helped.
Vitamin D
Vitamin D
My question is what is the proper or max dosage. In your response to Peter, you said to divide dosage. It sounds like the dosage you're on is 106mg so does that mean you take about 21 pills of 5mg melatonin? That seems a lot. Do you recommend starting out with a smaller dosage and build up? Just want to make sure I am suggesting the right dosage for her.
Thanks for your help on this!
Helps Hypothyroidism
Melatonin Side Effects
