I've always believed that nattokinase is best taken on an empty stomach. But then I came across a post here on EC by someone stating it was better to take with food. I came across a Dr Jesse Santiano who said that nattokinase "should be taken with food." Never having heard this before, whilst being open to re-examine which is more beneficial, maybe I and many others had been misled in thinking empty-stomach ingestion was better. That's all I've ever heard until now. I would be interested in hearing what Art Solbrig may postulate on this topic :).... With food or without? Or does it even matter? Thanks much.
Important Updates
Serrapeptase Option
articles by Dr. Hans A. Nieper, MD
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
If this is the product you are using, each capsule is rated at 2000 FU :
This is why I wish manufacturers would just use FU instead of mg also. Some 100 mg nattokinase are rated at greater than 2000 FU and so it is confusing to use mg when it is the actual FU of each capsule that is important.
To give an example, the following nattokinase capsule is only 20 mg, but each capsule is 2000 FU as described here :
Regarding a date for the replies, each reply and post already has a date in it near the top of the reply placed there by EC.
Art
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
Nattokinase for Arterial Plaques
This article outlines the benefits of Lumbrokinase over Serrapeptase and Nattokinase that I came across and which convinced me to try Lumbrokinase. I have to say, I've been using it for some time now and it helps considerably with my blood thickening disorder. I have been predisposed for years and needing to take these enzymes to be able to breath and function. I picked up the blood thickening issue myself during menopause when I discovered Aspirin helped. I tested this theory with others during menopause and they found relief too. Rather than taking anti-coagulants, I found proteolytic enzymes far better without the side effects.
Nattokinase Vs Statins
The difference may lie in the dose you are using which is greater than the study dosage, while the dose I am taking is slightly less than the study dosage. I I haven't seen any human studies using 12, 000 FU.
Just a quick mention, a bioavailable form of magnesium such as magnesium glycinate that delivers enough actual magnesium not just magnesium glycinate to reach the RDA should be beneficial for the heart and kidneys while helping to reduce vascular calcifications.
Art
Nattokinase Vs Statins
Nattokinase Vs Statins
I'm very happy to hear that the high dose nattokinase is helping you significantly. In my case nattokinase had no apparent effect on my blood pressure, but it worked quite well for lowering total cholesterol, LDL, VLDL cholesterol and triglycerides while increasing my HDL cholesterol. I still maintain my blood pressure in a desirable range with Carditone.
Art
Nattokinase Vs Statins
★★★★★
I have been taking 12,000 NK now for the last 6 to 8 weeks. my blood pressure used to spike continually. I started Carditone and that brought it down quite substantially most of the time. I have now stopped Carditone as my blood pressure is now consistently -all the time- normal and lower - 110 to 120 over 70 or so just with the NK. No waiting anymore for the BP to normalize. Seems the Nk may be curing or at least improving the heart disease that runs in my family. (my father and his two younger brothers and the grandfather I am named after.) I am currently 80 years old.
Nattokinase Vs Statins
Regarding which statin for your husband to take, his doctor will make that decision for him as a prescription is required. Nattokinase, in more recent studies, have shown that 2000 mg of nattokinase is an ineffective dose for fighting atherosclerosis. The study I highlighted with over 1000 participants suggested that 10, 800 FU was useful for reducing atherosclerosis after 12 months. Here is a link to that article :
https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/high-dose-nattokinase-for-atherosclerosis.html
Here is a relevant quote from the study :
As shown in Table 5, no differences in NK efficacy were found between male and female participants, although changes in female participants were marginally greater, but were not statistically significant. We found that NK at 3, 600 FU dose was not effective in lowering lipids and suppressing atherosclerosis. Lipid levels and CCA-IMT and plaque size did not change after 12 months of NK consumption at that dose (Table 6).
Art
Nattokinase Vs Statins
Important Updates
I have heard of DaVinci Nattokinase, but have not used it. The main point of the article was that 10, 800 FU was an effective dose of nattokinase for atherosclerosis. The DaVinci product requires two capsules per serving, but that delivers 20, 000 FU plus Serrapeptase and Rutin also.
I tried to stay close to the study dose and took 10, 000 FU per day. If you are going to try and follow the study dose, one capsule should be sufficient. I have not seen any studies using 20, 000 FU of nattokinase and wonder what they were basing that dose on. For me personally, I would not take that high of a dose since there are no studies to support it and 10, 800 FU of nattokinase has shown itself to be an effective dose for the purpose.
Art
Important Updates
Important Updates
Contraindications
If your doctor won't help you on that front, your pharmacist can check the compatibility of the two together. My doctor always asks me everything I am taking and each visit he asks if I have added any new supplements or stopped taking any and if I have, he adds it to my file or deletes it from my file as the case may be. He is looking for potential interactions and potential negative reactions to the supplements. When I added nattokinase/K2, he ran a liver enzyme test and a kidney function test to make sure it was not impacting those organs negatively since I am looking at longer term use. He also checked because of my long term use of high dose melatonin as well as topical melatonin.
I really like my doctor because he seems very thorough and intent on trying to maintain my health and I feel he is always honest and straightforward with me and also willing to let me try things such as NK instead of a statin drug. He allowed me the time to test NK and was willing to wait for the results to see if I could avoid the statin drug. He did say that if it didn't work, then I would have to go with a statin to get my cholesterol into a more optimal place.
Art
Contraindications
Art, I am taking Crestor 40 b/c of a recent very high CT calcium score. Is there any reason I should not take 8000fu of NK as a supplement to my prescribed therapy? My doc seems disinterested in any supplement advice.
I haven't seen any studies or articles that say the two can't be taken together, but the point of the article was that nattokinase is more effective for reducing atherosclerosis than the statin drug group and it doesn't include any of the known side effects of statins, some of which could be serious as discussed here :
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/atorvastatin-side-effects.html
Art
Nattokinase Vs Statins
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Since one of the roles of statins is to "harden" existing plaque to prevent clots from breaking off, does Nattokinase work opposite of that in terms of it's power to dissolve plaque? Put another simple way, wondering if they're safe to take together or if they work against each other? Thank you.
Unfortunately the study made no mention of dose timing. I personally take my full dose in the morning upon awakening. My supplement only suggests taking on an empty stomach and I would say my stomach is mostly empty upon awakening. Based on my cholesterol test results, I will likely continue on this dosing pattern.
I have seen articles suggesting taking at bedtime, morning or just on an empty stomach, but the majority of articles seem to agree on an empty stomach and to me that would be first thing in the morning. On the other hand, nattokinase is thought to be active in terms of fibrinolytic activity for over 8 hours, which is roughly the time we are asleep. So perhaps taking it at bedtime might optimize the antiatherosclerotic effects, but I have not seen a study to support that idea?
I think the bottom line is the study saw significant positive benefit just relying on the participants choice of when to take it.
Art
Best Time to Take
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I know that it should be taken on an empty stomach. Some suggest taking it on an empty stomach in the morning to optimize absorption rates. Another consideration is to take Nattokinase after dinner or before sleep since a thrombus is more likely to be produced around midnight to early.
The the study used Nattokinase at a high dose of 10, 800 FU per day for a full year, to very good effect in terms of lowering cholesterol, triglycerides, atherosclerosis, while raising HDL cholesterol. They also found that a dose of 3, 600 FU per day had no effect on the mentioned parameters. You didn't say what dose of nattokinase you used and for how long you used it. The majority of nattokinase supplements are only 2000 FU per capsule while some are only 1000 FU per capsule and the study dose would require more than 5 of these 2000 FU capsules per day to reach 10, 800 or more than 10 of the 1000 FU capsules per day to reach the study dose.
They also found that a low dose of vitamin K2M7 at only 180 mcg per day was additive to the high dose nattokinase in terms of improving the mentioned parameters.
My personal experience showed that nattokinase and vitamin K2M7 very significantly lowered my cholesterol numbers and triglycerides into the normal range.
Art
Important Updates
It had zero effect on my cardio markers (Cardio IQ test and other tests) - I am a walking heart attack my doctor had said.
No, I have no genetic polymorphisms related to CVD or other genetic conditions.
I am 110lb, eat no gluten or sugar.
P.S. IP6 gold supplement does decrease my very high numbers. Interestingly, since I do have elevated bilirubin (harmless, they say), it goes down as well. Scientists should study the correlation of cardio markers and bilirubin. By the way bilirubin is a very strong antioxidant.
Important Updates
Yes, I guess related in the sense that they are both promoters of atherosclerosis(AS) and CVD, but there are many promoters of AS and CVD in many things we eat, drink or are exposed to in life.
I am looking at it in terms of nattokinase, GSPE and vitamin K2M7 potentially ameliorating the atherosclerotic and CVD aspects of all of it in order to avoid becoming another AS or CVD statistic.
Art
Important Updates
Important Updates
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Covid-19 is estimated to have killed approximately 7 million people since it was found in 2019/2020 until today or just over 4 years.
Atherosclerosis, the main cause of cardiovascular diseases (CVD) dwarfs all of the deaths from Covid-19 since it was detected and tracked. In just one year, accounting for over 30% of deaths in the world or approximately 18 million deaths per year, atherosclerosis is far and away much deadlier than Covid-19 ever was. Seven million deaths in just over 4 years for Covid-19 compared to atherosclerosis at approximately 18 million deaths in just one year!
For a bit more perspective, the death toll from atherosclerosis is predicted to increase each year, but assuming it stays at approximately 18 million deaths per year for the next 4 years, that will be about 72, 000, 000 deaths over a 4 year period compared to 7 million Covid-19 deaths over a similar 4 year period. That is greater than 10 times the death toll of Covid-19! Excuse me while I go take my nattokinase.
Art
Mainly in that article I discussed the study results of Nattokinase over the study period, which was one year to obtain the results they reported.
My situation is different than the study, because I took more than nattokinase and for a significantly lesser period of time as I discussed my experience and timeline here :
https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/nattokinase-benefits-high-cholesterol-treatment.html
The dose of nattokinase I used was slightly less than the dosage used in the study and that was mainly because it was more convenient for me to take the dosage that I used.
In my last doctor visit, my doctor said, "Honestly Art, I don't think you could have done better had you used a statin." He further told me that my lipid profile is trending downward and may continue. So I am going to ask him if he will recheck my lipid panel at my next visit. I don't want my lipids to decline too much because cholesterol has healthful uses in the body and if I feel they get too low, I will reduce my nattokinase dose or stop for a while.
Art
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
Since they are actually 4000 FU per capsule, you will have to by an additional bottle of 2000 FU nattokinase per capsule. Take 2 of the 4000 FU capsules and 1 of the 2000 FU capsules to get to the 10000 FU per day level. Unfortunately, the brand you purchased does not offer a 2000 FU version that I could find. So you will have to choose another brand for the extra 2000FU needed to get to 10000 FU.
Art
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
The brand is Arthur Andrew Medical. Each capsule is 4,000 FU. The maintenance is 2 capsules per day. Increased support is 4 capsules per day.
Serrapeptase Option
Unfortunately there are no human studies that I have been able to find that used serrapeptase to reduce atherosclerosis. In my opinion, if an article makes a claim such as the one you mentioned and then offers no studies to support the claim, then the claim is merely an opinion.
When you check PubMed and search serrapeptase and atherosclerosis, you get zero results. They don't even have animal studies to support that claim.
When you search AI for the same, this is the answer it gives :
While some animal and in vitro studies have suggested potential benefits of serrapeptase in reducing arterial plaque buildup and inflammation associated with atherosclerosis, human clinical trials with rigorous methodologies are needed to establish its effectiveness and safety in treating or preventing atherosclerosis. '
This is the reason that I chose Nattokinase instead of Lumbrokinase or Serrapeptase, because Nattokinase not only had one human study, it had three or more, but there were over 1, 000 participants in the study I discussed to add further credibility to their findings. Overall it was a very good study and my short experience with trying to replicate the study results in myself has already exceeded their results in a shorter period of time than the study length.
I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence to support most of the proteolytic enzymes for atherosclerosis, but I was looking for science based evidence for the article and only nattokinase had that requirement. Given the above, I am sorry to say I have no suggestion for the dosing of serrapeptase for the purpose of reducing atherosclerosis.
Art
Adjusting Nattokinase Dosage
You didn't say what brand you are using, so I can't look it up to check the label.
So first, look at the back of the label of your nattokinase bottle. I've noticed that some suppliers say 4000 FU on the front label, but when you look at the back label, it may say "Serving Size - Two capsules". So this means that each capsule is 2000 FU and it takes 2 capsules to equal the 4000 FU advertised on the front of the label. I consider this to be a questionable advertising technique to make the buyer think that they are actually getting 4000 FU in each capsule.
Okay, so if this turns out to be the case and you get 2000 FU per capsule, you could take 5 of these capsules to equal 10, 000 FU. The capsules I take are 2000 FU each and I take 5 per day. I realize that this is 800 FU below the dose used in the study, but it has worked very well for me and I thought it too much trouble to try and get the other 800 FU.
So check your label and please come back and let us know what it says.
Art
Serrapeptase Option
Thanks for all of your articles on Earth Clinic. They provide a wealth of knowledge.
You can help prevent or remove arterial plaque build-up and occlusion in various ways using several strategies. You can remove cardiovascular and peripheral vascular problems caused by plaque build-up or high cholesterol in the blood or hypercoagulation in the blood aka "thick blood" due to excess fats in the blood or blood clot formation at the body's periphery or due to pathogen build-up in the arterial walls.
You could perhaps dissolve and remove the calcium-containing arterial plaque as one strategy. And you can achieve the calcium removal quite easily by either supplementing the Chanca piedra herb in capsule form at 1000 mg twice a day after meals. Or you could perhaps just follow Walter Last's recommendations and just mix 1 level tspn of Sodium Thiosulfate crystals + 2 tspns of water + 2 tspns DMSO(Dimethyl Sulfoxide) and manually spread that mix on you skin over or near the problem area. Both of these remedies will not actually reduce the calcium in the blood but they will act to safely solubilize and remove any excess calcium from the tissues and organs(including the arteries). And using Sodium Thiosulfate in this way also has the added advantage of removing any unwanted heavy metals and poisons like arsenic, chlorine, lead, mercury etc.
The next strategy that you could use to reduce excess cholesterol in your body and one particular LDL fat, called Lipoprotein A, better known as Lpa. The best and most Lpa-specific remedy for arterial plaque removal would be to just follow Linus Paulings protocol of taking 1 gm Sodium Ascorbate + 1 gm Lysine dissolved in a half-glass of water 6 to 8 times a day. The lack of vitamin C in the body is what causes the liver to automatically compensate by creating an excess of unwanted Lpa. So taking high dose Vitamin C acts to remove the need for the liver to produce any Lpa. And supplementing the Lysine also acts to solubilize and remove any existing plaque or Lpa from the arterial walls.
A simple remedy to safely thin the blood and to reduce clumping or "thick blood" would be to use the high dose Niacin protocol(niacinamide will not work!). Just supplement niacin between 100mg to 500mg 3 times a day at meal times. Supplementing the Lipase enzyme and granulated Lecithin -- only the granulated form, not the oil -- is another good one for avoiding hypercoagulation caused by fats in the blood. See this article by Walter Last:
Hypercoagulation (by Walter Last)
Lipase and Fat Metabolis (by Walter Last)
Walter Last also describes how using Vitamin C and MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane) together is more efficient so that less Vitamin C need be supplemented but more Vitamin C can be absorbed and used for two essential tasks -- first to supply more oxygen to the cells and, second, to more efficiently kill unwanted pathogens in the body -- while MSM can also help to simultaneously detox and repair cells on its own while in its anti-oxidant DMSO form it can also helps to resolve deep vein thrombosis at the body's periphery. Walter Last describes how, by using the oxidant form of Vitamin C -- called dehydroascorbic acid(DHA), more vitamin C is absorbed into the body than taking Vitamin C on it's own. See this link for more:
More Energy, Less Disease (by Walter Last)
In the article above, Walter Last describes a handy and useful internal protocol that is good for generating the dehydroascorbic acid(DHA) that is always necessary for increased Vitamin C absorption into the body -- here is an extract from the article:
"With serious infections it may be helpful to oxidize vitamin C to DHA before ingestion for better absorption and a stronger effect. Dissolve a teaspoon of sodium ascorbate and 1 teaspoon of MSM in a large glass of water. Add a teaspoon of 3% or about 10 drops of 35% hydrogen peroxide, a teaspoon of glycerine and a tiny amount of a copper compound. This solution does not keep and needs to be made fresh every day. Take a sip of it frequently during the day. In this way you can get a stronger antimicrobial effect with less vitamin C "
The simple Vitamin C and MSM internal and external protocol that Walter Last recommends in the above article is quickly described here:
"It is best to use vitamin C and MSM together, such as up to 2 rounded teaspoons or 10 grams each of sodium ascorbate and MSM, and possibly 1 to 3 teaspoons of 50 to 70% DMSO rubbed on the skin at problem areas, such as for arthritis."
Walter Last also advises that it's much more effective to use the oxidant form of ascorbic acid(or ascorbate) -- called dehydroascorbic acid -- which is the best form to help supply extra energy to the cells and to also help to kill a wide variety of bacteria, viruses, fungi and nanobacteria in the body as well.
Nattokinase and Calcium Buildup
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The available studies suggest that nattokinase at high enough dosing will breakdown arterial plaque deposits. These plaques are composed of fibrin, cellular waste products, fatty substances, calcium, cholesterol and possibly other components. So the studies suggest that arterial calcium deposits are part of the debris that is broken down in arteries.
Art
Nattokinase and Calcium Buildup
What the study found is that the addition of vitamin K2 was additive to the effects of the nattokinase. So for better effect in reducing atherosclerosis, adding vitamin K2 improved the results of the nattokinase for atherosclerosis in the study.
Art
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Recommended Brands
If you are a believer in the idea that inflammation in the vascular system is one of the main initiators of atherosclerosis, as I am, then absolutely, olive oil (OO) should have antiatherosclerotic effects via its anti inflammatory effects. I don't necessarily think it is the most potent natural antiatherosclerotic agent, but yes, I definitely feel it has antiatherosclerotic effects. Being a significant component of the Mediterranean diet adds a bit more confirmation to that idea since the Mediterranean diet is noted for antiatherosclerotic effects.
Art
Recommended Brands
What are your thoughts on taking a Tablespoon of high quality olive oil every day? Do you think it is necessary or not worth it since oils may go rancid on the shelf?
Nattokinase and Soy Isoflavones
In the one year study that the article was based on, they did not report any adverse events or significant side effects.
Art
Nattokinase and Soy Isoflavones
What about estrogen effects from the high dosage of Nattokinase? Is it considered a danger/risk?
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I have not seen any human studies using nattokinase or other fibrinolytic enzymes specifically for varicose veins so I can not recommend it for that purpose. However, there are web based health promotion sites that do suggest that nattokinase may be useful for varicose veins based on anecdotal evidence. Here is a typical example :
https://www.clinicaleducation.org/wp-content/uploads/argfocus_200811_nattokinase_web.pdf
Here is a relevant quote from the site:
Back in 2002, we theorized that by dissolving branched fibrin—which coagulates prior to full clot formation— nattokinase might prove uniquely helpful in a range of disorders in which hypercoagulation is involved. This includes atherosclerosis, infertility, high blood pressure, dysmenorrhea, fibromyalgia, deep vein thrombosis, varicose veins, hemorrhoids, and ischemic strokes. We also suggested it would prove helpful in chronic infections, where the body lays down fibrin in an attempt to seal off harmful pathogens. Finally, we concluded that nattokinase could be helpful in slowing many age-associated illnesses, since high fibrin levels create local pathology and ischemia, and block nutrient and oxygen delivery in microcirculation. Six years later, with nattokinase widely in use, firsthand clinical reports from doctors around the country support our hypotheses and the enzyme's impressive record of efficacy and safety in a wide range of disorders.
Based on the established safety profile of nattokinase, it seems worth discussing it with your doctor to see if he will also suggest it as in the article, for varicose veins.
Regarding vitamin K2, I am not aware of any studies confirming efficacy for varicose veins, but vitamin K2 has shown benefit for the vascular system in general as has nattokinase. Your doctor would have to approve their use for your safety and to make sure that they are compatible with all medications you are taking.
Thank you for your inquiry!
Art
Contraindications
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Can you take nattokinase and K2 if you have bad varicose veins?
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I trust all Mercola products as being of high quality - K2 = 180 mcg. I also like Carlyle K2+D3 in olive oil - one dropperful = 80 mcg K2 and 50 mcg (2000 IU) if Vitamin D.
Nattokinase for Arterial Plaques
Vitamin K2 works with other clotting factors in the body to aid in blood coagulation as discussed in this Cleveland Clinic article on the subject :
Here is a relevant quote from the article :
One of the main functions of K vitamins is to allow your blood to clot. In fact, the “K” in vitamin K is in reference to the German word “koagulation, ” which translates to “coagulation” or the ability to clot (or thicken) blood.
Regarding lumbrokinase, I have looked at studies for it, but in comparison to nattokinase, they are fairly limited. PubMed only has 92 studies listed for "Lumbrokinase" whereas PubMed lists 242 studies for "Nattokinase".
On a related note, the nattokinase study I highlighted for the article was important because of the size of the study cohort of 1,062 eligible participants and the fact that they also used a dose one third the size of the 10,800 FU of 3,600FU, which showed no benefit at all. Imo, a study of this size carries significant weight in terms of the value of the results they get. I have never seen a study of this size for Lumbrokinase being used for atherosclerosis. I would, however, like to see the study or studies that the doctor you listened to based his claim on. I haven't seen a heads up study specifically for atherosclerosis utilizing lumbrokinase, nattokinase and serrapeptase/serratiopeptidase.
Thank you for your questions.
Art
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General Feedback
You're welcome!
Yes, nattokinase has many other potential health benefits other than atherosclerosis or cardiovascular disease and EC has written an article that lists some of those benefits here :
https://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/nattokinase.html
Art
Recommended Brands
Thank you for the feedback!
I only point to Amazon because they have a large selection, but they are not the only reseller of nattokinase. So if you have a reseller that you feel confident in to sell real products, that is always your option.
Art
Recommended Brands
I think what you shared is great info ~ however, is purchasing supplements from Amazon pure?
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Natto is also recommended to dissolve the spike protein in CV19. Readers might be interested in The Great cholesterol con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick in the UK.
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I just read your article on Nattokinase and the higher dose made a lot of sense to me. You mentioned in the article that Vitamin K2 has blood coagulase properties. I use Vitamin K2 (MK7) as an anticoagulant and am pretty sure this is what it does. I wondered if it was a typo?
The other question I wanted to ask, is if you have ever tried or researched Lumbrokinase for arterial plaques. I listened to a doctor speak recently on how Lumbrokinase was by far superior to both Natto and Serrapeptase. I have used both of the latter for years as I suffer from blood clotting issues, due to fibrin, mold and EMF. I have only just ordered the Lumbrokinase so hoping to see myself if there is a difference to the 250,000IU of Serrapeptase I'm currently taking. I would love to know what you think.
