Remedies for a Slipped Disc

I believe people have lost the ability to put the most important things in life first and foremost. I see people day to day (not on here) talk about their cars, homes, vacations, jobs, etc, but never...I mean never talk about their health, unless its an issue!

Put it this way...house has a bad roof, replace it. Car breaks down, repair it. Yard needs work, do it. But I never hear, that my health is bad so I am going to repair or fix it. Its always "I'm going to the doctor". How about like this forum shows, take care of yourself so you dont have to go to the doctors. Most people never put their bodies first. Our body is more important that any car or house, yard, tv, etc.

Vitamins, minerals, herbs and other supplements are extremely important. Physical and mental exercise should be like a job. It must be done. Science has proved beyond any doubt that supplements and exercise can lead to healthy longevity, yet less than 5 percent of people actually take it seriously and do both. Less than 10 percent even do it half assed. And, less than 15 percent do one or the other even as recreation of a fad. Yet in those same cohort groups, even the ones who are in the 15 percent have less illnesses and/or doctor visits, the 10 percent group have way less, and those in the 5 percent rarely or never get ill or need to see a medical professional.

The fact is, we really only have one thing in life that is important. Our body. Not our material items, not our jobs, and not even our families and friends. Cause without our bodies, none of that matters.

I am glad there are forums like this that help people in need or with sharing information that help each other. But while all these are wonderful, exercise is hugely important. We need to take that seriously.

Quick story. Due to a injury during my time in the special forces, I was told I would never run again, walk with a cane and be in a wheel chair by 50. That was at 42. Within 5 years I was running 10k, squatting 300 pounds, living my life. And I was diagnosed with left hip injury, nerve damage, 6 vertebrae fractured, discs damaged, 1 inoperable. Never stop living your best life. It is hard, but once you pass that plateau, you will never look back.

I herniated a disc or two in the summer of 2021 from carrying my 15 year old eighty-pound golden retriever around toward the end of her life. I had intense back pain issues getting up in the morning after that, so bad at times I literally fell back into bed it was so excruciating.

While sleeping in a vacation rental condo with a thick Tempurpedic foam mattress topper in March, however, I woke up with no back pain. I soon realized the new, super firm mattress I had bought at the start of COVID had been exacerbating my back issues. When I got home, I promptly put a 3 inch foam topper that I had stored away on top of my mattress. Even though my back gets a little stiff during the night in one position, I no longer get out of bed in intense pain. In fact, NO PAIN at all. An instant turnaround.

I suggest anyone who wakes up with extreme back pain start experimenting with foam toppers!

I have a herniated disc at location L4-L5. I'm in my 50s and have had it for 5 years. I tried glucosamine chondroitin with some Hyaluronic Acid (HA) in the past but I think the reason it did not help was the dosage and maybe stomach acid a little. I even tried to bounce on a ball to exercise my spine to get moisture into the spine but it didn't work. I realized that my body needed some nutrient. I was stumped.

I had been looking on and off for years on supplements for synovial fluids. The first failure with the supplement kind of dashed my hope. This past month, I did read Ted's post and saw that he was having success with 4 grams of horse HA in a solution divided up over 14 days with many people. I also read other posts on internet indicating that HA has positive effect on synovial fluid so I upped my dose and made sure I used small molecule kind.

I have taken the supplment for the last 7 days at a dosage of 5 caps in morning and 5 caps at bedtime which totals 500mg HA, 5000mg collagen 2000mg chondroitin per day. My back has dramatically improved. I could actually feel improvement after 2 days.

I can't tell you at this point whether it has cured my herniated disc but I don't feel that pain when bending. I will evaluate my progress every two months. I was hesitant about posting too soon but given the result so far, it should be the first supplement you take for this condition because it hits at the root of why the condition came about. You should get some chiropractor treatments if you have never done so.

I am lowering the dose to 6 caps a day and plan to keep taking it for at least a year. I am thinking that the body may now have everything it needs to heal naturally so I will just be patient and let nature do its job. I will adjust to fewer capsules if I see enough improvement in other areas also. I developed aged spots. That is another sign of deficiency. Maybe it will improve my eyes also.

The formula I use with small molecule Hyaluronic Acid also includes collagen and chondroitin. I am using Biocell. Many products use their stuff. Shop for the best price but make sure it contains the small molecule HA. Be aware that stomach acid neutralizes HA so take on empty stomach.

It should be noted that HA is another form of glucosamine except that it is much more effective. Glucosamine is for all practical purposes obsoleted by Hyaluronic Acid.

Yes, it was a memory foam mattress topper. Beware of the latex natural mattress toppers, which say they are very cooling. NOT SO! I bought a 3" latex mattress topper in 2020 and roasted on top of it. Eventually just gave it away. The one I have been using is this one:

2 Inch Memory Foam Mattress Topper, Gel Infused: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N41IPPI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I did not buy the cover that goes with this mattress topper because I have an old twin memory foam mattress cover from Costco (they no longer sell, unfortunately) that is more cooling than anything I have tried.

I forgot to mention in my last post that my chronic sciatica issue also disappeared when I started using the memory foam topper. It was very painful for well over a year -- I can't believe I forgot about it!

There has always been a school of thought that posture and alignment are important. I know if my synoptic fluid and spinal is completely healthy, I can sit with crooked posture and alignment and my back will recover and still be ok.

I have been going to a chiropractor for years to keep my back from getting worse. But those only compensate to varying degrees so it is covering up the real underlying problems happening inside the body. It may postpone things or hold the line to some degree but not address the root problems of what is causing things to go bad.

These herniated disc / slipped disc / degerative disc disease problems are very important to solve because they immobilize people to varying degrees. Most people who use conventional medicine - synthetic medicines and surgery - to address these problems are up the creek.

The L4-L5 area seems to be the last remaining area that still seems a little tender but not as much as before. I don't feel it when bending but only if I press my fingers hard near that area. Given that it was injured the most, I would expect that to take the longest to heal. I will give that more time to heal before I put my lower back under a more heavier test.

While waiting for my spinal fusion, I got desperate and started researching natural supplements. I found a supplement that contains collagen, hyaluronic acid (HA) and chondroitin sulfate and started taking it almost 3 months ago. My lower back is in less pain and, for the first time in years, I sat in a hard chair for more than a few minutes and was able to walk for 30 minutes yesterday! Neither of these tasks would have been possible just 3 months ago.

Even though it is still early in treating with these supplements, I am hopeful for a recovery that will allow me to work again and have a life again (especially since insurance denied the fusion). Had I not taken these supplements for myself, I would have never believed it! Also, per recommendations I found on the interweb, I am taking a "loading dose" of 8 pills a day (double the daily dose for the first 12 weeks) of the collagen supplement from The Vitamin Shoppe.

ABSTRACT Copper is part of lysyl oxidase, which is the enzyme that cross links elastin tissue. The strength of elastin depends on its cross links (Sandberg). Upper spinal discs are made of elastin. Therefore it is imperative that copper status be brought up to normal before an operation. Sometimes an operation will not even be necessary if this is done. Copper status must be kept normal thereafter in order to prevent a recurrence by total intake of at least 3 mg per day.

INTRODUCTION

Herniated discs are the most painful, and numerous diseases in modern society. Slipped or herniated discs are estimated to cost more than 200 billion dollars directly and indirectly each year in the USAalone [http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/14750708.4.1.51 ]. I suspect that copper deficiency status is the most important parameter affecting them. Two hundred and eighty patients having back pains were treated with copper salicylate. A majority was believed to have a slipped disc. Improvements were considerable and rapid [Sorenson & Hangarter]. Restoring copper during that disease is imperative.

Therefore increasing copper intake should have a dramatic effect on our collective health. Copper should always be made adequate even when a disc operation is in order. If the copper status is unknown, there should be at least a week of 6 mg total intake per day prior to the operation, or at least high in copper foods such as shellfish or liver, especially sheep liver. There should not be great danger if there is a concurrent bacterial infection because a depleted liver removes free copper from the blood with extreme rapidity, [Peisach, et al], so the danger of bacterial stimulation is probably not acute. Even so, using ceruloplasmin injections might be a safer way during such an infection because copper is tightly bound in ceruloplasmin.

CAUSES of COPPER DEFICIENCY

That copper is below optimum in a large number of people is virtually certain from current evidence. This is caused by the low copper content of dairy products, loss of copper by removal of the germ from grain, and refining of sugar. Fructose (corn syrup) and sucrose sugar in fruit apparently produces a much greater need for copper once in the body [Reiser] [Fields & Lewis]. Treating vegetables with the chelating agent, ethylene diamine tetraacetate, reduces both their copper and their zinc to 20% of original values [Pfeiffer, 1972, p161]. Eating large amounts of vitamin C (ascorbic acid or ascorbate) is thought to interfere with utilization of copper within the body [Harris 1991][Underwood p71] although Evans thinks the problem is that absorption is decreased [Evans 1973b]. Vitamin C does cause greater excretion of copper via the bile and decreased absorption [Van Den Berg], so these may be the main mechanisms for vitamin C's interfering with copper. Vitamin C causes ruptures of the aorta in copper deficient animals [Owen]. Vitamin C inhibits copper sulfate injection to stimulate lysyl oxidase under a deficiency of copper if given before or at the same time as copper sulfate injection. But, strangely, if given 75 minutes later, accentuates copper's affect in stimulating lysil oxidase [Di Silvestro, 1981].

COLLAGEN TISSUE

The strength of collagen is not as badly affected because of the long length of collagen molecules close order enabling hydrogen bonds to be affective. However inadequately cross linked collagen is subject to creep. The discs below the sacroiliac of the spine are composed of collagen. The strength of pig or chick tendon is little affected by copper deficiency, even though the animals are dying of ruptured aortas and even though the tendons have 70% the cross links of normal [O'Dell] [Chou]. The normal lesser number of cross links are desirable nevertheless, for they permit the tendons to return to their original position after stress is relieved and not to cold flow as polymers held together only by hydrogen bonds do. The number of cross-links is probably optimum, because too many would make the tendon brittle. Too few cross-links would cause the tendon to become slack with time. Thus the body has a tough material which approaches steel in strength weight for weight and bones which are almost as strong as cast iron (I do not know how cross linked bone collagen is although both bone and tendon are type I collagen [O'Dell]). The lesser reliance by tendon collagen on cross-linking for strength may be the reason why the body uses collagen to repair lesions in arteries during a copper deficiency instead of elastin [Waisman, et al]. Such a strategy may be a good immediate expedient for survival, but I suspect it results in an intractable hypertension eventually because collagen is much less rubbery or elastic than elastin. It is conceivable that something like that goes on to a lesser extent in spinal discs. It might be a good idea to find out

Ankylosing spondilitis probably heals slowly because the sacral and ileal joints are made of type I cartilage [Paquin, et al].

COPPER AFFECT on the SPINAL NERVE SHEATH and FLUID

A copper deficiency produces a degeneration of the spinal cord involving the sheath around the nerve fibers, It is similar to the degeneration caused by a vitamin B-12 deficiency. Winston and Jaiser have proposed that the similarity is because of a dysfunction of the methylation cycle, which is dependant on vitamin B-12 catalyzed enzymes and may be dependant on copper catalyzed enzymes also [Winston]. Methionine synthase requires copper and they suggest that s-adenosylhomocysteine may be regulated by copper.

There is raised copper in the cerebrospinal fluid during Parkinson's disease [Beshgetoor]. Perhaps copper should be investigated for Parkinson's disease.

It was 400 mg HA per day for second week. Half in morning. Half at night.

It is 300 mg HA per day for third week and after. Half in morning. Half at night.

I am 6'2" 240 pounds so I may need more. The intent was to load up my system faster. I don't think it matters when you take it but I just chose to split it up given the large number of tablets. As long as you take on empty stomach and there is enough water in body. I measure my body water by the color of my urine. Collagen and chondroitin work with SMALL MOLECULE HA.

It's been around 4 weeks and my focal point of pain has shifted to my back hip on right and left side. I didn't realize that was hip degeneration. On hindsight, that's where it all seem to start necessitating me to sleep on air mattress. Before that, I could sleep on a hard bed. The hip pain started many years before the L4-L5 problem.

I expect it will take more time for the hip to heal due to the larger area. I haven't found any time estimates by other people except maybe people taking lower doses where their pain disappeared within a year so just playing this by ear. I think if my hip regenerates, I should be able to sleep on a hard bed.

Some person in another post indicated that a comfrey poultice cured him. I think that could be because they may be younger and/or their body provides enough HA to heal it. I think anyone with any beginning back problems should be on some small molecule HA as a preventive measure.

A long time ago I use to wonder why I had a weak lower back. I tried to lift weights to strengthen it but nothing worked. Looking back, it was a HA deficiency.

I'm planning to start supplementation for neck disc problems and it'd be very helpful to have a reply from you.