Q&A
Hi My first ever post. Yay! Art gave a fantastic post on making melatonin topical pain recipe. I only have a bottle of melatonin capsules 10mg. How many capsules would = 1 gram? I am horrible with maths, so I tried but couldn't figure it out myself. Thanks very much earthclinic community for all your advice. 🥰
Hi Tim,
In that article I describe how my friends made their melatonin lotion using melatonin in bulk powder form which is supposed to have no fillers. Your capsules have a lot of fillers and it will take 100 capsules to get to 1 gram or 1000 mg. Try and picture how much powder a 100 capsules will generate.
On ebay Canada they sell this bulk melatonin powder product, which looks like what they used :
Art
Q&A
What do you mean by a "quarter measuring teaspoon" of melatonin powder? Do you mean a measuring spoon which is a teaspoon measure?
Hi EB,
What I am referring to is a measuring teaspoon that is one fourth of a level full teaspoon that is part of a set that bakers use in baking as illustrated below. They are available at such places as Target, Walmart, markets etc. in the baking section. More specifically, look at the one marked 1/4 tsp (1/4 teaspoon). This is the size I use, filled level full with melatonin powder to make a 3 ounce bottle of melatonin lotion. The directions for making it are in the original article here :
https://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/topical-melatonin-pain-relief-success-stories.html
Art
(Okanagan)
07/06/2024
Hi Art -
I just want to thank you for always going the extra mile to make it easier for people to understand the information (links, pictures, etc.).
I've learned so much over the years from you and others like you (e.g., Mama to Many) who not only write an informative post, but are considerate while doing so.
Cheers!
Q&A
★★★★★
Is it possible to make this with rubbing alcohol or vodka? I ask because I am an alcoholic and the only gin I can get is in a larger bottle and I don't want the temptation of the remainder and I am not sure I would pour out what I don't need. I can get a 50ml bottle of vodka tho and rubbing alcohol is something I have on hand. Thanks for any help!
Hi Helen,
Yes, vodka can work, but in my experience it requires more vodka than gin to fully dissolve the melatonin powder, resulting in a more watery lotion. I don't recommend using rubbing alcohol. If you want to use gin, perhaps you can leave your large bottle with a trusted friend to hold for you until needed again and only take enough to make one bottle of lotion at a time.
Art
(British Columbia, Canada)
06/24/2024
Hi Helen,
I believe that based on a human fibromyalgia study utilizing melatonin, that the melatonin lotion(ML) should be useful for fibromyalgia pain.
In addition, also based on a human study, I believe that magnesium chloride spray, generally referred to as "mag oil" may be additive to the ML.
Here is a typical mag oil product on Amazon :
It may be worth trying both individually and together to see which is the best option for you.
Please come back and let us know what your testing results determine.
Art
(British Columbia, Canada)
06/25/2024
Thanks for all your help so far Art!
I have an additional question about the melatonin recipe. It calls for 1 gram of melatonin powder. I have purchased a bottle of 90 capsules of 10mg strength melatonin which if I understand correctly is 900mg, 10 capsules short of 1 gram. Am I correct in my math and will it still be strong enough for the pain relief benefits?
(I found a store with 50 ml bottles of gin!! :o) )
Thank you so so much for all the help you have given me!
Helen
Hi Helen,
In the original article I wrote about melatonin lotion, I described how my friends made their melatonin lotion using the bulk powder form of melatonin which has no fillers or additives. On the other hand, capsules and pills have multiple fillers which will not work very well for making the lotion because the fillers are a significant amount of extra powder. You might try following the original recipe which calls for using bulk powder such as this, which appears to be available on ebay Canada :
Art
(British Columbia, Canada)
06/26/2024
Thanks for the link Art! And all your help :o)
(British Columbia, Canada)
07/15/2024
So I tried the link you shared and they said that Melatonin powder is not allowed to be shipped to Canada plus many other countries. So I went ahead and used the capsules I had purchased. The additional ingredients in these capsules are gelatin, magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and microcrystaline cellulose. When I googled these ingredients I saw that they are also in skin care products so I decided to go ahead and make the melatonin lotion recipe with the capsules, to be clear the capsules have the powder in them. There were 90 capsules in the bottle which equaled 900mg of melatonin.
This is the recipe that I used which I adjusted down to work with 900mg of melatonin:
900mg melatonin (90-10mg capsules)
1.35 oz (40ml) gin
2.25 oz (66.5ml) lotion
I added the gin to the powder and it did not dissolve completely but it may have if I added more, I just assumed that the other ingredients perhaps did not dissolve in the gin. I then added the lotion and mixed it well. It is a bit grainy in texture but goes on smooth and absorbs great.
Now the good news, it works!!! I have fibromyalgia and I am always getting new pains and some go after a while and some stick around and are so bad I can't sleep. My newest pains were in my neck, shoulder, arm and hand and it was bad. I applied the lotion to my shoulder, neck and arm and when I woke up the next morning after sleeping the whole night! The pain was greatly reduced I couldn't believe it!
I am continuing to use it every night and just a touch during the day if I feel the need but my shoulder is 80% better, my arm and neck are being a bit more stubborn but at least 50% better and my hand is also 80% better. I have applied it to a sore bunion and that is pain free now!
I had started to use the magnesium oil in a spray bottle a while back with minimal help with pain but I continue to use it because I know it's good for me.
I also want to mention that I have tried all the prescriptions for Fibromyalgia non of which worked or worked enough to justify the side effects.
I do also take PEA400 (Palmitoylethanolamide) which has also helped me a fair amount and I would recommend to other Fibromyalgia sufferers.
The excellent results from using the melatonin lotion make me a little emotional because being in constant pain is hard on your spirit and I have finally found some relief and I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge with everyone! Thank you Art!
Hi Helen B,
Thank you very much for your important feedback on melatonin lotion and fibromyalgia! Many people suffer with this disease and your feedback will let many of them know that they have a viable way to get relief! I am very happy that it worked so well for you, Helen!
I'm sorry you can't get the bulk melatonin powder in Canada and have to use 90 capsules just to make one batch! These type of government restrictions are incredible for something that has a better safety profile than almost any prescription medication!
Please keep in mind that many people who have tested melatonin lotion have mentioned that the benefit seemed to modestly increase for the first two or three weeks before leveling off by the third week.
Art
(Georgia)
09/02/2024
Sir: I am very melatonin tolerant. I want to use 100mg strength to mix with gin and lotion. I have a bag of Melatonin from Bulk Supplements. The bag says 100g (3.5 oz). That's just the weight. The strength is only 3mg. How many teaspoons or tablespoons would I need to get 100 milligrams to mix in the 1.5 oz of gin, please? Thank you, Sir! Colleen
Hi Cfitz.
The amount of melatonin to dissolve in 1.5 oz of gin is a one quarter measuring teaspoon that is level full.
Art
Hi again, Cfitz,
I misunderstood your question. The only way I know of to get an accurate measure of 100 mg of melatonin powder is to use a digital milligram scale. The quarter teaspoon that I mentioned in my previous reply will be approximately 750 milligrams so you would need about one eight of that 1/4 teaspoon to get in the area of 100 mg.
I don't think 100 mg of melatonin in the 3 oz. bottle of melatonin lotion would have much effect as it will be a very weak mix.
Art
Q&A
★★★★★
Thanks,
Dawna
Hi Dawna,
I just used Cetaphil because it has been around for a long time and is readily available, but I think most lotions will work. Be sure to completely dissolve the melatonin in the gin before adding the lotion to the bottle.
Art
(America)
03/30/2024
I've been using the clear aloe vera gel available in stores. It works nicely. :)
Hi Hollyhock,
Thank you for the feedback on using Aloe Vera Gel as a substitute for Cetaphil lotion to make melatonin lotion. I make the same aloe/melatonin mix because I can apply it to my face without irritating my eyes. Melatonin is considered beneficial for the skin among its many attributes and aloe gel has shown the ability to act as a transdermal penetration enhancer while also being beneficial for the skin, so the two together seems like they should be more beneficial for the skin than either one alone. I am satisfied with the aloe/melatonin combo for my face but I haven't written about it previously on EC.
I still use the Cetaphil mix also because it can be more moisturizing in areas of application over dry skin.
I remember you saying you were going to make the lotion about four months ago, but I never saw your feedback. Did it help your hip and back pains and have you found any other uses for it?
Thank you again for the feedback!
Art
(America)
03/31/2024
Thanks Art! I would say it only has helped a little, but it does have a relaxing effect (I only use it at night before bed). I also apply some on my neck, which gives me trouble, and it relaxes that area. I will continue using it for such benefit! I never thought about applying to my face, I will give that a try as well! Thank you for the idea and the recipe!
Hi Hollyhock,
Thank you for the feedback!
When applying to the neck, testers have reported best effects by applying all the way up to the top of the neck, above the hairline to the base of the skull.
I tried applying the lotion to my face, but it really irritated my eyes. The aloe/melatonin mix did not irritate my eyes at all when applying to the face area around the eyes.
Art
Q&A
Hi whitebeach,
My friends used the term sparingly when describing how they were applying it. It will depend on the area you are applying it to, but as a basic example, when applying to the neck, just slightly larger than a pea size daube of the lotion covers the back of the neck. Once you apply that amount to the neck, you get a feel for just how much lotion is needed for just about any area of the body you will be covering. It is just enough to rub around the area and it is quickly dry. By the way, because the lotion is liquid and tends to flow, a pea size, if left to sit for a moment is the approximate diameter of a dime once it has finished flowing.
This same amount will also cover the back of the hand including the back of the fingers. Start with one application per day and then add a second application only if needed.
The aim is to use the least amount as possible and spread it around the selected area before it dries. I hope this answers your question.
Art
(Chicago)
02/26/2024
Art, I have user generous portion for neck and. back pain. Is there problem use generous portion?
Hi Peter,
Two reasons why applying sparingly is a good idea is that applying sparingly will be effective and some people are very sensitive to melatonin and applying generously can cause varying degrees of tiredness during the day in those who are sensitive. Applying sparingly helps avoid this issue and also makes your bottle of lotion last much longer.
I am not particularly sensitive to melatonin and can apply the lotion heavily without problem, but to me that is just wasteful unless you are trying to fight something systemically such as cancer because topically applied melatonin can definitely go systemic.
If the generous application you are using does not cause you to feel tired during the day, that is a very good indication for you for the future should you ever need to reach high systemic levels of melatonin for another reason not related to pain, but in the meantime, probably a little wasteful.
Peter, I have a few questions for you as your feedback is very helpful.
1. How effective are you finding melatonin lotion as a pain reliever?
2. What areas of your body have you used it on so far?
3. Is your wife also using it and what is she using it for?
The reason for question number 3 is since topically applied melatonin goes systemic in a way that oral melatonin can not, it can help protect the kidneys from multiple insults as discussed here :
Here is a relevant quote from the link :
' The process of kidney degeneration is often an implication of the frequent prevalence of arterial hypertension, diabetes mellitus, atherosclerosis, and obesity. Melatonin has been proven to have beneficial effects in all of these complications. Melatonin also plays a direct renoprotective role. Moreover, it can be helpful in almost every type of kidney injury because inflammation, apoptosis, and oxidative stress occur without regard to the mechanism. Melatonin regulates mitochondrial metabolism and ATP production and protects mitochondria. It inactivates free radicals by attaching one or more electrons and thus reduces oxidative stress. Due to these mechanisms, melatonin enables normal mitochondrial functions and protects patients from subsequent apoptotic implications and the death of kidney cells. '
In addition melatonin has also shown the ability to protect pancreatic beta cells which is important in diabetes as discussed here :
Here is a relevant quote from the link :
' Melatonin acted as an anti-inflammatory agent that reduced pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1β and IL-12) and oxidative stress biomarkers (MDA). Melatonin succeeded in protecting β cells under severe inflammatory situations, which was apparent by the regeneration of islets of Langerhans in treated diabetic rats. Moreover, these results can open a gate for diabetes management and treatment.'
Diabetes is well known to increase the risk for cardiovascular diseases (CVD) and melatonin works to help reduce this risk as discussed here :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8929360/
Here is a relevant quote :
' Diabetic cardiovascular complications and impaired cardiac function are considered to be the main causes of death in diabetic patients worldwide, especially patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). An increasing number of studies have shown that melatonin, as the main product secreted by the pineal gland, plays a vital role in the occurrence and development of diabetes. Melatonin improves myocardial cell metabolism, reduces vascular endothelial cell death, reverses microcirculation disorders, reduces myocardial fibrosis, reduces oxidative and endoplasmic reticulum stress, regulates cell autophagy and apoptosis, and improves mitochondrial function, all of which are the characteristics of diabetic cardiomyopathy (DCM). This review focuses on the role of melatonin in DCM. We also discuss new molecular findings that might facilitate a better understanding of the underlying mechanism.'
Art
Scalp Eczema
★★★★★
' Hi Art,
My scalp eczema usually flares up in January and February. I put the melatonin lotion on it...guess what? All gone and no roughness or itchiness...yay! '
This is a new indication for me as I have not heard from anyone else that it has helped their scalp eczema before this.
Art
Skin Cancer
I wonder, if the melatonin, applied locally to the skin could help for skin cancer also. Thank you for your insights.
Hi Koys,
I don't think there is currently enough human data to draw a definitive conclusion for your question, but this 2023 review article gives some very good clues and when you take into consideration the known anticarcinogenic effects of melatonin as well as its very good safety profile, it definitely should be a molecule of interest when it comes to skin cancer / melanoma :
Here are a couple of relevant quotes from the review :
' In skin tumors, melatonin has inhibitory effects on melanoma in vitro and in vivo. Fischer et al. found that the oncostatic effect of melatonin was related to its concentration and co-culture duration with melanoma cells, but was also relevant to the specific melatonin receptors expressed on the membranes and nuclei of cells. Cells expressing nuclear receptors exhibited stronger growth inhibition, whereas cells expressing MT2 receptors on cell membranes were more sensitive to the inhibitory effect of melatonin [49]. Reiter and colleagues found that mice with knockout of NQO2 (which encodes melatonin-binding sites in the cytoplasm) increased their susceptibility to carcinogens and were more likely to develop skin tumors [27]. Lv et al. analyzed RNA-sequencing data from The Cancer Genome Atlas. They found the melatonin system in the tumor microenvironment to have predictive value for the prognosis of skin melanoma. Patients with a high melatonin synthesis/metabolic index had a better prognosis and fewer patients were at an advanced stage of disease, whereas patients with a low melatonin synthesis/metabolic index had higher immunogenicity, which suggested a stronger response to immunotherapy. In the group with a low melatonin synthesis/metabolism index, the enrichment of genes related to hypoxia, inflammation, proliferation, metastasis, and DNA damage implied that melatonin could inhibit tumors through these processes, but the detailed mechanism has yet to be elucidated. Lv et al. demonstrated that the melatonin synthesis/metabolism index was an independent predictor after including disease stage for adjustment in multivariable models, which suggested that melatonin might affect the prognosis through biological mechanisms other than inhibiting carcinogenesis and proliferation [50]. Melatonin also modulates melanin synthesis. Alvarez-Artime et al. found that in a murine melanoma cell line (B16–F10), melatonin could alter the cytoskeleton, reduce the level of cyclin-dependent kinase-1, and slow-down mitosis to leave tumor cells in the G2/M cycle for a long time, thereby inhibiting proliferation of B16–F10 cells [51]. Studies have demonstrated that in melanoma, melatonin can reduce production of the antioxidant enzyme SOD in tumors [52]. Those reports suggest that melatonin may be a candidate drug to treat skin cancer by producing ROS. However, Ozben and colleagues stated that melatonin also produced ROS and caused tumorigenesis [53]. Therefore, the anti-tumor properties of melatonin through the production of free radicals need to be studied further. Bonmati-Carrion et al. showed that melatonin induced the apoptosis of melanoma cells [54]. In that study, melatonin (millimolar range) reduced the viability of melanoma cells significantly. This effect was shown to be related to activation of an apoptotic pathway triggered by an increased level of ROS, but the mechanism was not clarified. Perdomo et al. found that melatonin could regulate the phosphorylation of glycogen synthase kinase-3β and activate the microphthalmia transcription factor, which regulated melatonin synthesis. Glycogen synthase kinase-3β could increase ROS and melanin by itself or by inhibiting the Nrf2 signaling pathway [55]. However, contrary evidence suggests that melatonin can reduce melanin production [56], which suggests that melatonin exerts anti-tumor effects by influencing melanin production. '
' Accumulating evidence has shown that melatonin has anti-tumoral properties, but also exerts anti-inflammatory and antioxidation effects by controlling tumor augmentation. In melanoma, melatonin can induce apoptosis through several pro-apoptotic proteins, such as HSP70 and Nrf2. Furthermore, it exerts anti-inflammatory effects through the NF-κB pathway and phosphoinositide 3-kinase/protein kinase B/mammalian target of rapamycin pathway, which could be sites for therapeutic intervention [72]. The anti-cancer property of melatonin makes it a promising candidate for adjuvant therapy in melanoma. Also, compared with other chemical products, the natural metabolism of melatonin in human cells has lower toxicity. Hao et al. demonstrated melatonin synergistically strengthened vemurafenib-induced inhibition of proliferation, colony formation, migration, invasion, apoptosis, cell-cycle arrest, and “stemness” weakening in melanoma cells. Melatonin inhibited nuclear translocation of NF-κB p50/p65 and their binding to iNOS and human telomerase reverse transcriptase (hTERT) promoters, thereby suppressing expression of iNOS and hTERT [73]. Scholars have elucidated that melatonin can inhibit angiogenesis in tumor tissues by complex mechanisms, thereby restraining growth and migration of tumorous gastric, breast, and ovarian cells [74]. In melanoma, angiogenesis is an important indicator of tumor aggressiveness and poor clinical outcome, but studies investigating this role of melatonin in melanoma are lacking. '
So the above quotes give known methods of action by which melatonin should offer anti skin cancer / anti melanoma effects, but actual human studies are lacking, which is hard to understand why they are lacking given the very good safety profile of melatonin in humans.
I am of the opinion that lotion may not be the most optimal delivery agent for this purpose.
Art
Trigger Finger
★★★★★
My wife wants to tell you that using your lotion in 4 days healed her trigger finger.
Thanks a bunch
Gary
Hi Gary,
I am very happy that your wife was able to relieve her trigger finger issue and pain so quickly! Please tell your wife she is welcome! Thank you, Gary, for coming back to let us know about another benefit from melatonin lotion as the list is growing fairly quickly!
Art
(Chicago)
02/09/2024
Art, I have used more than 10 times on my wife before this response. I have used on her back, neck and knee pain. It works! Also your naproxen with Alcohol works too. Thanks Peter
Can I substitute Alcohol (70%) with GIN to mix with naproxen?
Hi Peter,
Thank you for adding your results with melatonin lotion for your wife to this thread. Always good to hear how it is working for people.
I think in the long run, you will get a better total effect by substituting melatonin lotion for topical naproxen because melatonin has shown potential reparative effects compared to naproxen which only has pain relieving effects. I also am seeing that the melatonin lotion has cumulative effects with regular use that may ultimately exceed naproxen's pain relieving effects. A very important point about melatonin lotion that I have not discussed yet on EC is that it goes systemic in such a way that it may be more beneficial than high dose oral melatonin for our health. I will discuss that point more in a future post, but this feature of melatonin lotion is very important for our health in many ways.
If you want to continue using naproxen anyway, then gin will also work as the solvent, but I would take melatonin lotion any day over naproxen topical mix that I mentioned to you months ago.
Continued improved health to you and your wife!
Art
Where to Buy
Hi Dave,
Melatonin powder is available in one strength, but manufacturers describe using different amounts to equal so many milligrams such as 3 mg or 10 mg. They are basically mentioning the dose they are recommending and sometimes include a scoop for the amount they are recommending.
So any bulk powder melatonin should work. Earth Clinic has posted an easier mix that requires just one, 1/4 teaspoon at level full to make a 3 ounce melatonin lotion mix. You can find that in the original article where it has been added today.
A $20 bag of melatonin powder should contain about 25 grams of melatonin and that should be enough melatonin to make at least 25 mixes of melatonin lotion.
Skip the $200 bag of melatonin. My friends used the bag of melatonin that EC linked to in the article which is around $20.
Art
Where to Buy
I called a Homeopathic Pharmacy but they did not have it, as I bought two other items related to Earth Clinic's email. I am really interested to know where the Pure Melatonin Powder and the Cetaphil Moisurizing Lotion could be bought as there was no note of this on the link. Thanks.
(NC)
11/14/2023
Hya, Hyacinth!
I noted this in the links above --- maybe it was a later addition?
Am doing research for my brother and a couple of friends, and maybe for myself before too long since 69 y/o knees feeling the stresses now.
Where to Buy Melatonin Powder
Bulk Supplements sells a large bag of pure melatonin powder reasonably priced.
Melatonin Powder Bulk Supplements - $18.96 for 25 grams - 8,333 servings
Hi Hyacinth,
I didn't actually add any links for ingredients in the article, but I believe this is the link that EC put into the article for melatonin powder :
This bag will be enough for 25 four ounce jars of the mix described in the article.
This is the common lotion that my friends used to make their melatonin lotion :
This bottle will make approximately eight 4 oz. batches of the lotion.
This is the gin that they used that cost under $20 for the bottle at Costco:
https://www.costcuisine.com/post/costco-kirkland-signature-london-dry-gin-review
This bottle will make approximately over 23 of the four ounce mixes. They chose this gin because of the number of listed botanicals (9 botanicals) in it as well as the price.
I am not recommending these three products, just showing what my friends used for their mixes. I would think that similar products would work similarly.
Art
I will ask EC if they can add these other two links to the article.
EC: Thanks, Art. Links added to the bottom of the article!
Where to Buy: Canada
Hi Guzin,
It looks like it might be available on eBay Canada :
Canada is like other countries when it comes to melatonin and is not available over the counter.
Art
(Vancouver Canada)
05/02/2024
Hi Art,
Thank you very much.
looking forward to try your melatonin lotion for pain. I will post my results.
(North)
07/07/2024
This is not quite true, melatonin is available over the counter in Canada but only in pill form up to 10mg I believe. Bulk powder does not appear to have the same freedom.
(buffalo)
05/08/2024
Do you know anyone in Ontario, Canada? They can drive over the border and purchase it in the US at most large grocery stores or health food stores for you. I get a bad case of sleeplessness starting in February due to lack of sunshine. What works for me is tanning/a vacation in Florida getting lots of natural sunshine or a valerian tinture. Also taking progesterone/biest if you are a woman and menopausal.
Where to Buy: UK
★★★★★
Recently I came across a bulk supplier in the UK that sells melatonin powder. Here is a link to that supplier:
https://rawpowders.co.uk/melatonin-powder
I'm not sure why, but it takes a long time for their website to load and open.
I had recommended this supplier to an acquaintance in the UK and they said they received quick service and would buy from them again, so I thought I would share the link since melatonin powder seems harder to obtain in the UK compared to the US.
Art
