The comments below reflect the personal experiences and opinions of readers and do not represent medical advice or the views of this website. The information shared has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease or health condition. Always consult a qualified healthcare professional for medical concerns.
Baking Soda
Posted by Angel (Manila, Philippines) on 02/08/2009
★☆☆☆☆
Hi,i tried 2 used baking soda yesterday in the afternoon after my shower, but after a several time my armpit sweat, and had a bad smell again,why this happen to me? I thought this remedy cures my bo..What im gonna do? How many baking soda put in my armpit? Anybody could help me in this problem?
Zinc Oxide Ointment
Posted by Sid Davis (Springfield, Missouri, USA) on 02/01/2009
★★★★★
In the discussion of baking soda remedies, I notices more than one comment about baking soda as a deodorant.
I have not tried barking soda for deodorant, since for the last 20 years my wife and I have used zinc oxide as a deodorant. It works better than any commercial deodorant I ever used. You don't even need to used it every day; just every second or third day does the trick, even in the summer. Never fails.
What I am talking about is the tube of 20% zinc oxide that you can pick up at a drug store or at WalMart here in the USA. Just smear on a little dab under each arm pit after your shower. No stains, no smell, no irritation. If you are concerned about safety, look at diaper ointment; it contains 20% zinc oxide.
The only problem I ever had was when I first tried it and used too much and used it every day and it caused a small swelling in my sweat glands under one arm, I think from blocking perspiration. The swelling went away when I started using it just every other day, on which day I used nothing.
The way I happened on this was my mothers giving me a mineral rock she got at a health food store that was supposed to be used for deodorant. I thought she was nutty, but my wife tried it a couple of times and said she thought it worked a little. We wanted to avoid aerosol and deodorants that contained aluminum, so I looked at the health food store for whatever else they had. Since the mineral rock contained zinc as one of the ingredients, I decided to buy a very expensive cream deodorant that contained zinc as one of the ingredients, and it worked very, very effectively, except that it cost a fortune. I happened to see zinc oxide in a tube at the drugstore for only $0.65 per tube (20 years ago) so I tried it instead of the expensive health food zinc cream, and it worked.
Stop Using Soap
Posted by Robin (Rocky Ridge, Ohio) on 01/24/2009
Actually, soap has a higher alkalinity than our skin prefers. Our skin prefers a rather acid ph. This is why after a shower with soap we itch, it's because the ph of our skin has been altered and the natural oils neutralized/removed by the soap. A remedy for itchy skin is a moisturizer of lotion, cream or oil. Oil is actually an acid and that's why the itching stops, because the ph has been altered back to acidic with the application of the oil substance.
When the skin gets alkaline, it creates a breeding ground for the bacteria that causes odor. The bacteria feed off of the sweat in the alkaline environment.
I've been using the no soap and AC vinegar method. I put 50/50 ACV and water in a spray bottle and spritz it on before I shower. After scrubbing with a plain wet washcloth, I get out of the shower and spritz the ACV/Water mixture again instead of deodorant.
What stumps me is the baking soda working on body odor because it is an alkaline substance. The only thing I can think of that causes it to work is that it may become too alkaline for the bacteria to thrive and/or absorbing the sweat. But given all the redness, rashes, itching and reactions to the BS, I would say its probably too alkaline for the skin of most people and the reason for these reactions.
For those of you using regular baking soda from the stores, name brand or otherwise, they also contain aluminum. The only baking soda I know of that is aluminum free is a brand available at the health food stores that specifically states on the label, Aluminum Free. If memory serves me correctly, most of the baking soda found in stores is a by product of aluminum manufacturing. They just don't list it on the label. I buy the aluminum free BS to use internally to keep my body alkalized.
I'm also intrigued by Ted's explanation of magnesium and zinc deficiencies being a cause for an increase in body odor. Earlier today I actually started taking zinc and this evening I took some magnesium citrate because I've been getting the heart palpitations back again and the mag cured it before. hmmmm...I think he's on to something...
Blessings,
Robin
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Lynda (San Francisco, CA) on 01/19/2009
Which ACV exactly should I buy? Can anyone tell me which works for you? Should it be diluted or filtered?
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Constance (Los Angeles, California) on 01/19/2009
★★★★★
I am a new member and I used the Apple Cider Vinegar remedy for underarm odor and I am shocked that it works. I must use it daily; otherwise, it doesn't work for me. I would also like to mention that some cause of body odor is caused by a condition called Trimethylaminuria (TMAU) - it is a rare metabolic disorder. There is much information online about it. Good Luck and thanks agains for the ACV remedy.
Baking Soda
Posted by Marie (Cavite, Philippines) on 01/12/2009
thank you all for your time and effort on how to solve my problem. i am planning to buy ACV at the supermarket but i really hope that there is apple cider vinegar there and im hoping that it'll work on my underarm.. but to become 100 percent sure, i have to consult first a dermatologist. so that this irritation and rashes won't happened anymore. and i'm planning to tell my mother about this also 'coz she didn't know about the rashes that had occurred in my armpits. i don't want her to know about my problem as much as i could handle it but i think in this case, i should tell her immediately to help me solve it. again, thanks for all your suggestions! i do appreciate them all! thank you guys! :)
Baking Soda
Posted by K.Lynn (Mt. Healthy, Ohio) on 01/07/2009
1/06/09 to marie from cavite phillipines. Marie the bo and rash may be something coming out from the inside. Try cheap grocery apple cider vinegar under armpits while showering ( acv 1st) wash everything else then come back to armpits and rinse w/ water ONLY. If you are not alreay on internal cleansers listed on this site (i.e. acv, obs, flax seed, H2O2,etc.) try one or two ( acv w/ organic baking soda (bs takes sourness out of acv)), to start and see if you don't feel better. the rash can be indicative of candida sometimes when it's in an area that we sweat heavier. many blessings, I hope this helps.
Baking Soda
Posted by Kal (BK, NY) on 01/07/2009
I'd suggest trying Apple Cider Vinegar-just apply it to a cotton ball before showering,wait 3-4 minutes,and rinse.I've seen someone here suggest not using soap-try both ways,(with and without), and see which works best for you.I really hope this helps! Good Luck!
Baking Soda
Posted by Gina (Oslo, Norway) on 01/07/2009
Hi Marie; I also had side-effect of baking soda; but I got rid of my body odor this way; 10-20 g chlorella algae daily for a year; you will notice improvement after a few weeks, depending on how "toxic" you are.
Supplement with B-vitamins and Zink may contribute to healing
I hardly ever have to use antiperspirant any more, but virgin coconut oil + some drops of essential oil works as a deodorant and also inhibit odor.
Ps if you cannot afford chlorella; you may try lugols iodine as a supplement instead. 8 drops daily of the 5 % lugol Then add 400 mcg of selenium and 50 mg of zink daily until improvement; then reduce to 3 days a week.
Baking Soda
Posted by Jiji (Pinay) (Dallas, TX) on 01/06/2009
Apple Cider Vinegar for Body Odor
This is in response to Marie...I did try using Baking Soda for a few days and got the same reaction. It started with itchy, red rashes and that burning sensation. I completely stopped using it. Then those red rashes turned into a much darker color. Here's what you might want to try, which I am actually doing now after reading it from one of the comments. Take a couple cotton balls, one for each armpit, and saturate it with apple cider vinegar (better organic if you can find some). Rub on the cotton ball for few seconds and leave it alone for at least 10 minutes or as long as you want before you shower or rinse. Do not use soap, just run the water down to wash out. In my experience, I get a good coverage all day long. Please give it a try for a few days and I would love to see you post your feedback.
Baking Soda
Posted by Jane (Wichita, Kansas) on 01/06/2009
Try dabbing apple cider vinegar with a cotton ball under the arms before you get in the shower. Wait 2 to 3 minutes, then wash it off but don't use soap. I've been doing this for a few weeks now and found it is much better than baking soda for body odor. It actually lasts 2-3 days - unbelievable! I shower as usual in between applications but don't use soap on my underarms. 3 days has been the max so far before the body odor returns.
Hopefully you can find apple cider vinegar in the Philippines. Doesn't have to be organic either. (I don't use it). Good luck!
Baking Soda
Posted by Shawn (Sulphur, Louisiana) on 01/06/2009
For irritated armpits, use eucerin ointment at night time to heal the area. I used eucerin also during the day to protect the skin around the armpit area that is inflamed. I also used an unscented antiperspirant to cover the area around the armpit to provide a protective film so the baking soda would not burn that area...very effective. Now I am trying desitin ointment as suggested on this site..so far very good...more confindence...hope this helps someone.
Baking Soda
Posted by Dave (Tokyo, Japan) on 01/06/2009
You might try borax. This is a main ingredient in bathing salts, so it can't be too tough on your body. You can put it in a bottle and let it soak for a day or so that it's kind of like a soft mud. I noticed that since I started using borax (after reading some entries on this site) instead of shampoo/conditioner and body soap, the BO has really gone down, dandruff and rashes have gone away, and I like the way my hair feels. I have to wonder if the residual chemicals on my body in typical shampoo is a factor in BO and other problems.
Baking Soda
Posted by Marie (Cavite, Philippines) on 01/06/2009
Please help me! i'm now confused on what i will use to prevent my BO.. cause there's so many procedures and chemicals that has been written by some and now, i really do not know which is the best. i don't want to try it all because some products are hard to find. i actually tried baking soda, it's pure sodium bicarbonate and it really helped me to fight BO on the first day but now, i want to stop from using it because i've got irritations under my arms. it's like red rashes and when i apply baking soda,my underarm gets painful. it felt like it's burning! ouch! now, i don't know what's the cure for this SILLY BO and also the cure for the red angry rashes because of the baking soda? i really want to remove this BO because i don't want to be away from other people just because i don't want them to smell my BAD odor. i really appreciate those who will be able to reply on my problem.
Zinc
Posted by Suzanne (Abbotsford, BC, Canada) on 01/04/2009
★★★★★
I know someone who had bothersome body odour until he started taking zinc (15 mg per day). Now there is NO problem! What an easy solution to a nasty problem.
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Anne Cutty (New York, New York) on 12/11/2008
★★★★★
I put apple cider vinegar to the test for underarm deodorant. I am pleased to report that it works! Here's the skinny: I dunk a cotton ball in apple cider vinegar and apply it to my underarms. The trick to making this remedy work for at least 24 hours (no odor whatsoever) is to wait before you jump in the shower. I try to wait a minimum of 2 minutes. I have tested the time frame for the past week and washing it off under 2 minutes from the time you apply it shortens its effectiveness. So go and brush your teeth or hop around the apartment to some music before you wash it off. The longer you leave it on, the better. Also like someone else reported here, I don't use soap to wash the vinegar off. I just hold my arms up one at a time to the shower and then do a sniff test.
The real test will be next summer on a hot and humid Manhattan day, but so far so good this season!
Baking Soda
Posted by Tess (Palm Beach, FL) on 12/04/2008
Sharon, don't add honey to the apple cider vinegar when you apply it to your armpits! The remedy does not call for honey, just straight up apple cider vinegar. Apply acv, wait a few minutes, then get in the shower and wash it off with water, not soap. That will hopefully work great for you.
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Tess (Palm Beach, FL) on 12/04/2008
★★★★★
Tim, thank you for your post about acv curing body odor. I tried your technique the past 2 days and it has worked fabulously! I used a very cheap brand of apple cider vinegar from the grocery store (not organic but "all natural") and applied it straight using a doused cotton ball to my armpits about 2-3 minutes before getting in the shower. I did not use soap to remove the smell, just hot water. It does last all day! I worked out at the gym last night and even though I had a good sweat, still no smell. I had been using the baking soda remedy but gave up on it recently as it caused too much irritation. Thanks again for your post!
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Pam (New York, NY) on 06/21/2008
Try plain baking soda. I read about it on this site and it works wonders. No underarm odor WHATSOEVER! Just rub a little bit under your arms after your bath or shower. You'll be odor free ALL DAY! Good luck. It helps to wear cotton or natural fibers of course.
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Carla (Boston, MA) on 08/11/2007
I am responding to Janette from Asheville, NC. You are not alone! My underarm odor has always been a little strong, but controllable. In the last few years have noticed that my left underarm has an "Odor" of it's own! As a professional woman in my 30's I am mortified by the increased smell and at a loss until I found this website (just last night!). This website is truely a "God Send"! I am going out to buy every single item that was mentioned on the cure page. Like most of you I have tried dozens of deoderants and nothing has worked. If anyone has any further information as to why only one armpit smells, please pass this knowledge along! Some of us are desperate!
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Monique (Charlotte, NC) on 06/20/2008
I have always had problems with excessive underarm odor, and was unable to find a deodorant or antiperspir- and that would work for me. The ones that claimed to combat the most difficult odors were too strong and would turn my armpits black. I have found that clear gels are the best.
My right arm pit began to smell several years ago for no apparent reason. At that time I was using solid deodorants. For me, the odor was being caused by a clogged hair folicle in the armpit. This caused a large lump that was filled with a turned back hair, sebum (oil), sweat, and deodorant. When I switched to a gel, and didn't apply deodorant immediately after shaving, the problem ceased.
Baking Soda
Posted by Kate (The Middle, US) on 11/26/2008
Hi Sharon,
I think most Health food stores carry it. If not, you can probably purchase it online. Not sure, but you could possibly do without it. You were already wondering about adding cornstarch to the baking soda, which is what reminded me of my recipe. Maybe you should try the baking soda and cornstarch combo and let us know if that works? I know bo isn't something you want to test too much, tho. Good luck finding what you like best.
Baking Soda
Posted by Sharon (Selangor, Malaysia) on 11/24/2008
Dear all, Thanks a lot for the reply & idea. Yeah maybe I should cut down onion, garlic , egg, dairy products in my diet. Yeah, I tried apply the honey vinegar at night, but maybe due to the sugar content that's why I felt sticky. Currently, I stopped using Baking soda for temporary & stick back to the deodorant and see what's the result. Besides that, I just started taking "Fitorac", it is a powder form of health supplement which consist of 21 kinds of organic vege & fruits. The main function is to detox & nourish the liver. It is a product from Elken, maybe you all can check it out. Hopefully I will help me to detox & eliminate my BO. By the way, Kate where can I get the kaolin clay?? Thank you & keep in touch. Sharon :P
Baking Soda
Posted by Mary (Boston) on 11/23/2008
Sharon, I don't think you would need to reapply the sodium bicarbonate after sweating since it lasts all day (until you shower it off). Also, I would also warn against using any kind of talc under your arms. It is a known carcinogen. I read about someone applying apple cider vinegar to his armpits before he got in the shower, then rinsing it off so you might look into that. Also look into your diet. If you have bad body odor since high school, it may be something you're eating every day. Onions cause bad body odor for me. The more I eat, the worse it gets! Took me a long time to make the connection. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Baking Soda
Posted by Kate (The Milddle, US) on 11/24/2008
Hi Sharon,
Here is my recipe for a baking soda deoderant:
1/4 C Cornstarch
2T Kaolin Clay
2T Baking Soda
1/4t Lavendar Essential oil
Shake well (until Essential oil is mixed in pretty well) then let sit overnight.
I apply this with a powder puff under my arms and haven't had any problems.
Baking Soda
Posted by Sharon (Selangor, Malaysia) on 11/23/2008
Hi Mary, thanks for the feedback. Emm, I will sweat a lot even though staying in an air cond room as no proper air ventilation as the air cond been set with very high temperature by other colleagues even though Malaysia is a hot & humid country. After sweating, found that the sodium bicarbonate will melt and leave on both my armpits. Is that mean that I need to wipe it dry and re-apply the sodium bicarbonate again through out the day? Other than sodium bicarbonate, is it advisable for me to add in some cornstarch? Im so desperate to cure by BO problem which been haunted me for years since my high school days. Thanks & take care Sharon :P
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Tim (Berkeley, CA) on 11/21/2008
★★★★★
I found out about apple cider vinegar as a deodorant about 1 year ago and have tried various amounts and ways of applying it. It works really well and I have settled on applying filtered ACV via a small spray bottle right before I get into the shower in the morning. I leave it on for about 1-2 minutes as I brush my teeth and then get into the shower and wash it off. It leaves me odor free all day. I love it and 2 of my friends have adopted this method and now swear by it as well.
Baking Soda
Posted by Mary (Boston, MA) on 11/20/2008
Hi, Sharon. I also experience irritation with the baking soda on the armpits, especially if I apply it after shaving. I've tried all methods - wetting it, applying it dry. What works best is to wait a few hours after shaving then apply a very light dusting to the armpit. I believe the irritation happens because of the clumps in the baking soda, so trying grinding the b/s down in your palm as finely as possible before applying it.
Baking soda is definitely NOT an anti-perspirent. I do question why people want to stop perspiring. I don't think it's healthy. The body needs to sweat out toxins through the pits!!
Good luck!
Baking Soda
Posted by Sharon (Selangor, Malaysia) on 11/20/2008
I have face some irritation on both of my armpits problem after applied the Natrium Bicarbonate as suggested from your Earth Clinic website to use Baking soda to prevent body odour. Besides that, it was wet on both of my armpits after sweating even though it claimed that will stay dry after application. The baking powder i purchased contain 100% sodium bicarbonate even though they labeled it as " Natrium Bicarbonate" .May i know what is the content for the Baking soda that you suggested. As in Malaysia, the baking powder for cake preparation contain natrium bicarbonate, sodium & flour. Or should I mix in some flour / body talcum if I'm using the Natrium Bicarbonate. How about the correct way to use Baking Soda? As it won't able to stick on the armpit after application even though I wet my armpit before hand. Or shall I mix it with water before application??
EC: Most people in the USA are probably using Arm & Hammer Baking Soda, which is also 100% Sodium Bicarbonate.
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Marie (Las Vegas, USA) on 09/19/2008
What is the recipe for the ACV and baking soda. Is it safe to drink it?
Diaper Rash Ointment
Posted by JB (Somewhere, Maryland) on 09/13/2008
★★★★★
I read about using diaper rash ointment for under arm protection in the newspaper last week. I tried it that very day-- it's the best antiperspirant/deodorant I have ever used. It's a wonderful alternative to the usual stuff.
Grapefruit Seed Extract
Posted by Gean (Salina, Kansas) on 09/09/2008
★★★★★
The best natural deodorant I have found is a few drops of Grapefruit Seed Extract (GSE) rubbed under the arms. Works perfectly!
Zinc
Posted by Suzanne (Abbotsford, BC) on 08/24/2008
★★★★★
My husband used to have a problem with body odor. I read somewhere that zinc could help with that and other problems he had, so convinced him to try it. He takes 25 mg of zinc per day and, although he may still sweat, it doesn't smell! Really cuts down on washing...
Corn Starch
Posted by Pat (Ballwin, MO) on 08/23/2008
★★★★★
Another good deodorant is CORN STARCH baby powder. Do not use powders with TALC! If you stop using soap and begin using shower gels that are clear, the Corn Starch Baby Powder does the trick.
Baking Soda
Posted by Agnes (Cebu City, Philippines) on 08/19/2008
1.Do i need to apply it directly in my armpit after taking a bath?
2. Do i still need to used deodorants/ antiperspirants after i applying baking soda?
3. How to prevent excessive sweating?
Stop Using Soap
Posted by Samantha (NY, NY) on 08/18/2008
Joyce, Thanks for your feedback. I will try your method again when I can be home for a couple of days. I will post thereafter to inform you of the results.
Stop Using Soap
Posted by Joyce (Joelton, Tn) on 08/18/2008 490 posts
To Samantha from NY: Sorry that no soap didn't pan out for you. May I suggest that if you try it again, unless you have 3 days to bathe without soap, before returning to work, start off the first day or two of bathing without soap but use a cup or two of ACV in your bath water to remove soap left over from your last bath. Because as someone else found out, any soap, shampoo, etc. will negate not using soap.
Stop Using Soap
Posted by Samantha (NY, NY) on 08/16/2008
★☆☆☆☆
Hello Sharon A. from Greenwich, I recently posted about what I used regarding underarm odor. However, after reading Joyce's post regarding "Stop using soap" earlier this year I totally stopped. I take a longer shower and use baking soda as a body scrub (also saw this here on Earth clinic). I guess everyone is different because I found that even after eliminating soap (and with a diet of no processed food etc. etc.) after a few hours I needed help. I cannot run home to shower so I am using baking soda which is excellent and for me more long lasting than Thai crystals. When I shave I apply VCO which helps to expedite healing of any hidden cuts. After a day or so I return to baking soda because VCO is great but not as effective as baking soda.
I recently tried another natural remedy which I have not seen here on Earth Clinic - lemon juice. It sounds crazy but a friend announce that like Julia Roberts she has never used roll-ons - antiperspirant/deodorants. She does not know Julia and does not know what she uses but my friend uses a bit of lemon juice. I tried it it and was amazed that it was equally as good as baking soda. Has anyone else tried lemon juice? It is wonderful that nature has so many solutions for our needs.
Stop Using Soap
Posted by Sharon A. (Greenwich, CT) on 08/14/2008
★★★★★
To Joyce from Joelton, Tn -- thank you for this simple cure. It is the best!
I had been using the baking soda cure for body odor for a few weeks, but stopped because it was causing small cysts where I nicked myself shaving. I have now been "off" soap for 5 days (ha ha, that sounds funny) and after the second day, no armpit odor. I shampooed my hair yesterday and later in the day, smelled some b/o. I deduced that it must have started when I rinsed my hair, some of the shampoo residue got under my arms (duh, obviously)... So as long as nothing but water touches your underarms, no body odor. Our family started using the natural laundry detergent that doesn't contain phospates and fragrances, just essential oils, so that must be helping too.
Witch Hazel
Posted by Lisa (Coto de Caza, CA) on 08/10/2008
★★★★★
I've tried several natural deodorants and none seem to work. Apply Witch Hazel ( I use Thayers Brand) on a cotton round after a shower. Works all day. Reapply after workout. Also a good toner for your face.
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Suzi (Missoula, MT) on 08/08/2008
Mona....please tell me exactly how you apply ACV and BS to underarms...this sounds fantastic
Apple Cider Vinegar and Baking Soda
Posted by Mona (Albany, GA) on 08/08/2008
★★★★★
I found several postings about dabbing ACV on underarms and then powdering with baking soda as a deoderant/anti perspirant. I felt like my deoderant was failing me and was looking for a more natural approach. This is AMAZING and truly works. I never would've believed it, but I have absolutely no odor what so ever. I encourage you to try this. I also take a bath with 1 cup ACV + 1 cup baking soda and my skin is so soft. I will be enjoying many more ACV "recipes" now that these 2 have been so successful.
Baking Soda, Corn Starch, Baby Powder
Posted by Pat (Tupelo, MS, USA) on 08/02/2008
★★★★★
I developed a rash from commercial deodorants and tried some commercial sticks without the aluminum...no rash but had bad BO. So now I have concocted a recipe that works for me 1/3 baking soda, 1/3 corn starch, 1/3 baby powder, then make into a thick paste using citrus antiseptic mouthwash and a little lotion. Works great for me!
Baking Soda
Posted by Sam (NY, NY) on 08/01/2008
★★★★★
Baking Soda for BO- what to do when you shave
If Baking Soda is used after shaving your armpits will become extremely sensitive even irritated. I use VCO [VIRGIN COCONUT OIL] after shaving for a few days until any small wounds (invisible to the eyes but there nonetheless) heals. VCO's effect is not as long lasting as Baking Soda - so on a very hot day a few application might be needed. However, VCO expedites the healing then one can return to the Baking Soda. Hope this helps!
Anyone has a better interim solution than VCO - please share.Thank you.
Apple Cider Vinegar
Posted by Amy (Sachse, TX) on 07/26/2008
★★★★★
I'm not sure about cellulite, but I'm sure if anything would work ACV would. I had horrible acne and started applying it straight topically and taking two table spoons internally daily. Also started applying it to my arm pits nightly. I had a horrible problem with deodorant not working after my first pancreatic attack. I now only have to apply deodorant once in the morning. No reapplying 3 or 4 times during the day. I noticed after about a week that I was using the restroom more regularly. Because I have Pancreatitis, sometimes my food does not digest properly. The ACV has also helped with this. I have never believed in anything the way I believe in Apple Cider Vinegar. It is inexpensive and good for you. So even if it doesn't work for Cellulite it will make you feel better over all. I have heard of people using ACV as a fat flush to lose weight. Maybe that is why it has helped with some peoples cellulite. Good Luck!!!
