Collagen Contraindications
I ordered some Collagen. The label states as follows:
Marine collagen type 1&3 1000mg, Hyaluronic Acid 200mg/serving; Vitamin C, Zinc, Copper for Immune System; E, B2, Iodine. Hydrolyzed peptides supplement. Dose: 2 capsules daily.
I take Levothyroxine 100mcg daily for Hashimoto's. Do you think the fact the collagen contains Iodine is a problem for me? Each capsules contains 100mcg of Iodine, so a total of 200 mcg if 2 capsules are taken.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
(AB, Canada)
05/22/2020
Collagen Contraindications
Helen M.,
I have never seen anything that would indicate that collagen supplementation can cause low sodium levels.
Common causes of Hyponatremia are certain diuretics, excessive water intake, hormonal imbalance, excessive diarrhea, dehydration, antidepressants, Cushing's Syndrome, excessive exercise, NSAIDS and other pain medications.
Art
Collagen Feedback
I had three or four rounds of Cipro seven or eight years ago, but only recently been diagnosed with torn tendon. (I had x-rays and MRI with and without contrast) It shows full thickness tear of gluteal tendon. My orthopedic surgeon has me going to physical therapy for six weeks to see if that helps, before surgery. However, I feel like my tendons in arms are bad too! I know I have arthritis but this feels totally different. I ordered the collagen that you suggested and started with the 3 pills a day on an empty stomach. I have only been taking them for one week now, so no improvement yet. Anyway, my question is how long CAN cipro take to do this damage?? Everything I have read says the longest is up to six months but mine has been years. Do you think it is still possible?? Thank you, DeeDee
Hi Dee Dee.
The time range (years) between when you took cipro and when you started having symptoms is generally considered outside of the range that cipro can do damage.
Here is how I would look at it. It appears that cipro is not the likely cause, so I would move cipro out of the equation and then focus on the problem at hand which is the full thickness tear of the gluteal tendon. You are on the right course with starting on the collagen supplement. For myself in this position I would also take vitamin C to further increase collagen production and I would also give some consideration to taking gelatin as a supplement and possibly hyaluronic acid, but definitely 2,000 mg minimum of vitamin c per day.
On a related note, the friend that I wrote the collagen post about is doing well, but he went on a trip and forgot his collagen and so far has not had a problem with the missed doses.
Art
(Texas)
11/01/2020
Thank you so much Art. I do take vit c (at least 3 grams per day) and also hyaluronic acid 120 mg. Will add gelatin now.
Thanks again, DeeDee
(Philippines)
11/01/2020
Some more information on Ciprofloxacin or Cipro which might help some people. If you look up Cipro in Wikipedia you will see that each molecule of Cipro contains fluorine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciprofloxacin
So for me, because Cipro contains fluorine, that automatically disqualifies Cipro as an outright poison for the human body and so you should NEVER take Cipro as a medication. EVER.
Cipro, characteristically, is well known to cause "sudden tendon rupture" as a side-effect and that's because Cipro causes tissue/cell necrosis(cell/tissue death) caused by the fluorine in Cipro. The favorite tendon that suddenly snaps or breaks for no reason when you've taken Cipro is usually the Achilles tendon in the lower leg.
The liver also has great difficulty getting rid of fluorine from the body. So it stores it within the body as fat instead. Excess fluorine is also stored in the bones and teeth. And, unfortunately, fluorine is also easily absorbed by the thyroid gland instead of iodine -- especially if your diet is low in iodine and your are hypothyroid. Thus many people in the US who take Cipro will suffer all the poisonous effects of fluorine plus all the hypothyroid symptoms as well -- low energy, low mental accuity, tired all the time, poor immune system, digestion problems etc etc.
The only two nutrients I know that will remove fluorine safely from the body are Lugol's Iodine(also recovers the thyroid) and Borax.
https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/lugols-iodine-supplements.html
https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/borax.html
And because fluorine can be stored in fat, bones and teeth, this also means that it will take quite a while to remove or detox all that fluorine from all those difficult areas in your body(probably >year).
By the way, Cipro is usually the drug of choice if your doctor is clueless as to what is causing your problems. For instance, this year my wife had a bad upset stomach/intestines and had to go to the hospital. The doc didn't know what was actually causing her problems so he just prescribed Cipro. I immediately objected and asked him whether he was aware that Cipro was a poison because of the fluorine. The young doc -- who must've been about 24 yo -- looked at me strangely as if I was an idiot. And then I said, "And are you aware that Cipro has a FDA Black Box warning on the the box it comes in?". That did worry the young doc (he didn't know about the black box warning, I kid you not!) but he still prescribed Cipro for my wife. Anyway, on my advice, my wife didn't take the Cipro. I advised that she should just take several aspirin that day and in the evening. The next day she was fully recovered. The aspirin killed-off the bad bacteria that was causing all her problems.
True story. In the old days -- pre-WWII -- if the older doctors didn't know what was causing a patient's problem/diseases they would normally always give their patients high dose 5% Lugol's Iodine. These old docs admitted that they didn't understand how LI worked or what it did but they all said that Lugol's Iodine "would always do something good." But now, if the modern docs don't know your problem/disease they will probably give you Cipro. And if ever there was a completely useless, only-for-profit antibiotic drug out there that was not beneficial to the human body -- it's a poison! -- Cipro is it.
Did you know that Ciprofloxacin is also on the WHO's list of Essential Medicines? Cipro is just dangerous chemo in a pill. And the docs are prescribing it like it was jelly-babies...
(Okanagan)
11/02/2020
Thank you, Bill, for all of the information you share with us.
In 1995 (unfortunately, before the Internet), I was prescribed Cipro for pneumonia. I had a very bad reaction, resulting in hospitalization.
Believe me, that was the last time I trusted a doctor.
I wish I knew then what I know now. Fortunately, with sites like Earth Clinic and mercola.com, I have been able to stay away from conventional doctors. I haven't taken any prescriptions since 1995 and rely on Lugol's, supplements, borax, and a host of other things, to stay as healthy as I can.
On another note, I hope you and your family are safe from Typhoon Goni.
Take care!
Hi Bill,
As if the blown tendons and ligament tears aren't bad enough, Cipro is also known for causing nerve damage resulting in peripheral neuropathy!
Cipro is in a class of antibiotics known for these problems of which there are many different names as outlined here :
https://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20130826/fda-strengthens-fluoroquinolone-warning
It is not enough to just scratch Cipro from the list of drugs you will not take because there are many different named drugs in this drug class as mentioned in the above link. Levaquin is another popular one from this group, but there are many more and the patient has to be aware of this in order to protect themself from these potential very serious side effects!
Art
(Texas)
11/07/2020
Hi Art,
I have only been taking this product for two weeks today, but I am very hopeful! I am definitely feeling better and sleeping better as well. And....I haven't taken ANYTHING for pain for almost a week!! DeeDee
That's great news, Dee Dee! I hope you continue to see continued improvement. It takes time for the healing to occur. My friend who used the collagen has been off of it for two weeks and has reported no problems, but I would like to see him continue with the collagen for a bit longer to optimize healing, but as it is, he is very happy with his results!
Art
Collagen Feedback
This is called "chronic shoulder instability" and once a shoulder has been dislocated just once, it is subject to this instability which means it can be prone to dislocate again. This is common in people who are or were active in sports such as hockey or football who dislocated their shoulder. I'm not thinking collagen would be effective in this case. Here is a video that shows a different option for shoulder repair that might be suitable for your cousin that does not limit range of motion : https://youtu.be/yB7yTdsoT24 Art
(faithville, Us)
06/15/2020
Videos: John knows the bones spine and lots of stuff to heal the body https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGPZkw4XJ1I Eric on referred pain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GHVuUnX0H4&t=342s
Collagen Feedback
★★★★★
Hi, Dan.
I really have no idea about the use of melatonin for a multi decade nasal issue. It worked extremely well to get rid of my months long cough, but that is not the same issue.
If it is really arthritis in your back, borax is what has put my arthritis into remission for well over a decade using Ted's dosing recommendation for men. It costs less than a penny per day at Ted's dosing schedule. When I say remission, I mean no pain at all from what was severe pain in most joints. I would not be without borax now. Collagen can help some people with arthritis, but I suspect that it is a different method of action than borax. If I had to choose only one for arthritis, my first choice would be borax as I believe borax goes after the cause while collagen may just be replacing what is being depleted by the disease process. For some people, MSM works well for relief from arthritis pain, but I am not one of those people and some people are sensitive to MSM and can not use it. I don't consider DMSO to be a practical long term option, but some claim it relieves arthritis pain and other forms of pain, but again, I am not one of those people as it does zero for any pain issues I have tried it for including arthritis.
If I had a similar nasal issue, I think I would try Mucinex, a neti pot using different active ingredients including a blend of colloidal silver and xylitol, quercetin, homeopathy and a nasal spray called Xlear in no particular order. Here is a link for Xlear which also contains xylitol which can act as an anti-irritant.
Good luck and please keep us posted on how you do!
Art
(New Jersey)
05/30/2020
Hello, Art! Thank you for the great info on Dr. Neel's mega melatonin regimen. I take 10-mg, sub-lingually at bedtime, for sleep, but have never been able to stop multiple sniffles, blowing my nose, and hacking phlegm (easily 15 to 30 times a day ) SINCE THE AGE OF THREE !!! And if I have a cold, all the above, easily 100 times ...........That's SEVENTY TWO YEARS, every day of my mucusy life! I' m going to try 50-mg tonight. I'm vegan ( no dairy ) and take a slew of vitamins, though I can't afford the pricey ones like resveratrol, co-q-10, NADH, etc. But I'm up to 18 grams of ascorbic acid , with no effect on my nasal games. I'm looking forward to this melatonin experiment ! Again, THANK YOU! Lastly, are there any vegan, or even vegetarian multi-collagen caps or powders that would come close to the arthritis-relieving Multi Collagen Plus, by Dr. Emil Nutrition? I've had financially & socially crippling back problems since age 19 & would love to see some of the various improvements Amazon customers raved about, that you so considerately and time-savingly provided with your link. I looked for vegan collagen on Amazon, but the reviews were dismal. As an afterthought, I don't think I'd have a moral dilemma, if Multi Collagen Plus was not made from animals killed for collagen, but from animal parts left from those slaughtered for food. All The Best! Dan
Hi Dan, Thank you very much for the compliment! Yes, I definitely hope that others see similar benefits as my friend did with this supplement! I'm hoping the Melatonin /Covid-19 post will save lives and serious after effects that are now seen in Covid-19 survivors! Unfortunately, the one and only planned study for melatonin and Covid-19 is only going to use 2 mg of melatonin! How sad is that when they continue to trial and test drugs like remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine which still allow people to die of Covid-19. Dr. Neel only has 20 Covid-19 patients as of last week, but everyone of them started to improve in one day of using high dose melatonin (HDM)! Not one of his patients had the dreaded "cytokine storm" or pneumonia or had to be intubated. These are three major points of Covid-19 that are associated with death and without those three, Covid-19 becomes less of a killer disease and more of a "disease that you can live with". https://earthclinic.com/ailments/melatonin-for-covid19-post-intensive-care/ Sorry to drift so far off topic, Dan, it's just that I am a little passionate about melatonin and Covid-19 as well as melatonin and other major diseases like cancer! Art
Dan, Two things that are often mentioned for excess mucous that does not release easily are N Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) and Mucinex, both mucolytics, but whether you plan to try anything for the condition you have, including melatonin, it seems that you should seek your professional health care provider's advice or your doctor's advice and supervision because any of these can potentially interact with medications you are taking or could possibly impact your current condition negatively since it sounds like you have never had a definitive diagnosis. Art
(North Jersey)
05/31/2020
Hi, Art! Very kind of you to respond to my concerns so quickly! I've taken NAC ( 600 mg ) with Alpha Lipoic Acid ( 600 mg ) at least once a day, for years & years, not for mucous, but to protect my liver & kidneys from too many tablespoons ( sometimes 2 to 3 ) of organic agave syrup, mixed in with nut butters ( soy, almond, sunflower, tahini, peanut .....all organic , or at least non-GMO ). I'll look into Mucinex. Thanks for the tip. As for "no definitive diagnosis " , every doctor I've ever seen, including the last two, who were immediately informed of my nasal annoyances, were completely ineffective in finding a cause. And the last one, who is world famous, Dr. A. ( has a radio program on WBAI , 99.5 FM , and was chief pathologist for over 35 years at Holy Name Hospital in Teaneck , NJ ), does not accept Medicare. So it would cost me the usual $175.00 to get his advice on NAC, Mucinex, melatonin, etc. The last time I saw him, about 7 months ago, I asked him what it would cost for an intravenous, 50-gram, vitamin-C drip . He said he doesn't go any higher than 25-grams, and it would cost $160.00 !!! That's in addition to the $175.00 office visit. This level of price gouging is so disappointing from a doctor whose broadcasts repeatedly showed disgust with the medical profession. I've stayed away from antihistamines for liver/kidney/drowsiness concerns, but I'm gonna' try the Mucinex. I'll also try 3 or 4 caps of NAC before bed. Be Good To Yourself, as you have been to others and me. Dan
(Boston)
10/29/2020
Please be careful with Mucinex, it can make your blood pressure skyrocket, one of the side effects. I can't take it, though it does work, but not worth the danger of feeling your pulse every time your eyes blink, scary stuff.
Collagen Feedback
★★★★★
(South West)
10/13/2020
I just want to update on my wrist with Art. My wrist is 80% to the good. I will be ordering more collagen you recommended.
Not complaining, but woke up this morning and and my ankle is in severe pain for no reason. Soaking it in hot epsom salts and applying magnesium spray. So I'm back on crutches. I believe this is caused by the Cipro.
Any other remedies please let me know. Thank you, Ray
(California)
10/13/2020
Hi Ray,
I'm very happy to hear that the collagen is significantly helping with your wrist! My friend is getting on quite well with it and I saw him out in his yard working with different shears, clippers and a hedge trimmer with no problem the other day and his happy!
Regarding your ankle, a few things things come to mind without knowing more, gout, a fracture or arthritis. Gout is caused by too much uric acid and the number one remedy on EC is apple cider vinegar, but pure black cherry juice is also helpful for gout.
For arthritis, borax, MSM and boron are useful.
For a fracture, you will need an xray to confirm and then you can work on it from there.
No matter the cause of the pain, a good topical pain reliever should be effective, but it would be better to have your doctor determine the cause first.
Art
Ray,
I forgot to mention if you think the ankle is from cipro, take vitamin c and extra if you are already taking it. It may also help with gout if it is caused by gout.
Art
Collagen Feedback
★★★★★
Hi Sherri,
It sounds like your husband got the worst possible effects of Cipro and I am sorry to hear that. On the positive side, the curcumin is very good to take for multiple myeloma(MM)! For further information on the roll and effects of curcumin with MM, here is a link to a blog that I think you and your husband may find quite useful:
https://margaret.healthblogs.org/
The originator of that blog is Margaret who is a very nice lady and has had MM for a long time and has managed to keep it at bay with curcumin and a few other supplements, curcumin is the main component of her regimen. I used to go to her blog many years ago, so I doubt she will remember me, but I would definitely recommend that the both of you stop in and see how she has kept MM at more a less a stand still for so many years! Back to your husband's pain issues. The collagen may help, but it takes time as my friend found out. I can suggest a couple of noninvasive topical pain relievers to help your husband until the collagen does whatever it is going to do. The first one is an old standby here on EC and that is magnesium chloride oil or mag oil (MO) as it is commonly referred to. MO can relieve some joint pain and reduce inflammation and swelling such as a twisted ankle might have as well as help to relax tense muscles especially in the neck and shoulder areas. It can also rapidly relieve muscle cramps in the legs, feet, arms and hands. Here is a link to an inexpensive ($10) MO product that will be plenty for your husband to test and use for quite awhile.
The other product I would suggest is a homeopathic blend product and being a homeopathic product is much less likely to have adverse effects. This product I would describe as having slightly more pain relieving effect than MO, but does not have as broad effects as MO, but if pain relief is the main issue then this one may be a good choice, but either one should be helpful. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/natrabio-the-arnica-rub-4-fl-oz-cream
Sherri, please comeback and keep us updated on how your husband does with all of it as this information will be quite useful for the members of EC! Art
Collagen Feedback
Hi, Kate!
I think this one below may be worth giving a try as it is powder that can be mixed into a smoothie, coffee or just about any cold or hot drink. This one is obviously popular with over 26,600 reviews and a 80% five star rating and a 4% 1 star rating! An 80% 5 star rating is very impressive with this huge number of reviews and the 4% of 1 star ratings is also very impressive with this many reviews. Generally, as the number of reviews grow, the 5 star rating drops and the 1 star ratings increase, but this product with the huge number of reviews has managed to keep its ratings very high! These are very good numbers when there are 26,600 reviews! It is not exactly the same formulation as the capsules that my friend used, but it seems worth a try. Collagen Peptides Powder by Sports Research https://amzn.to/2Tu4WQf
Kate, if you do decide to test this product, please come back to this post and give an update to EC so if it works well for you, others on EC who have swallowing issues can also have a viable option to the capsules!
Thank you! Art
Collagen Feedback
★★★★☆
EC: Hi Doreen, It's called: Multi Collagen Plus (Types I, II, III, V & X) - Collagen Peptides + Absorption Enhancer - Grass Fed Collagen Protein Blend for Anti-Aging, Hair, Skin, Nails and Joints (90 Collagen Capsules) by DR EMIL NUTRITION
(Springfield, MA)
07/24/2021
Honestly would not suggest anyone getting these supplements off of Amazon as the product is not consistent. And causing horrible abdominal pains. If you can find it somewhere other than amazon I would highly suggest you do so.
Collagen Feedback
★★★★★
(United States)
05/20/2020
★★★★☆
Please see the latest report from OCA regarding collagen. Great Lakes contains heavy metals, along with a few other ones that were surprising: https://www.organicconsumers.org/blog/consumer-beware-these-popular-collagen-supplements-contain-heavy-metals
Hi, Jan,
If that collagen supplement is working good for you, that is great! I specifically mentioned Multi Collagen Plus Types I, II, III, V & X, because that is the exact product that worked for my friend for his torn ligaments and torn tendons. He also tried a similar product with the same ingredients on the label and it did not work for him at all as he continuously declined while taking it and turned out to be a complete waste of time and money. I don't normally point out a specific product like this, but because it has worked very effectively for him and the other similar collagen product did not,
I am specifically pointing out the collagen product that did work for him very well. When I started reading the reviews for the many collagen products out there, it became clear that judging by the ratings and comments not all collagen products are created equal! It's not like vitamin D where most brands are going to be similar in effects, so brand is not a critical issue, but in this case I am pointing out the product that worked very well for his purpose so there is no confusion about what worked for him.
Art
Collagen Feedback
★★★★★
Hi, Roger! I'm hoping that you see similar results as my friend did! Please come back after some time and let us know how it works for your knees and pain as this will be useful for many here on EC! I noticed in the Amazon reviews of this product, users reported improvements in their knees as well as other joints and the back, which seems to make sense as certain forms of collagen are found throughout the body. Pain is always an issue for many, so having things on hand that can be useful is a good thing. I may have an idea or two for you, but I have to check with EC first to find out if this is the appropriate thread to put it in since this post is specifically about collagen and torn tendons and ligaments. Another consideration is that taking another new product at the same time as testing this collagen supplement may not allow you to know which one is working or which one is working better. I will get back to you after I check with EC about where to post back to you and they give me an answer. I know from experience that when you have significant pain, as it sounds like you do, any relief is welcome and I may have a couple of ideas that may be helpful and can be used while you are testing collagen without affecting the outcome of your test, so I will get back to you soon! Art
(TEN MILE, TN)
05/21/2020
ART,,,,,,,,, ever once in a while a feller come along that has something good to talk about. I think you are one of those fellas. At 83, my skin is tissue thin. It tears with the least brush against something. I just ordered the product that you recommended. Not a deal, as we knew we would have old age problems and have the cash to do what is needed. I also like your approach to solving a problem. I have used that logic my entire life and it works. I have a Ch E degree from Ga Tech, but my logic come from being an Eagle Scout. My Scout Master did not care if you got above a Tenderfoot, but if you were in his troop, then you could live in the woods with ease. You bonded with nature. Thank you for your contributions to EC. We just different kind of folks from the norm. ====ORH====
ORH, It has been a while! I really don't have experience with collagen for thinning skin, but that is one of the primary uses that it is often recommended for. I don't think the topical collagen creams can do that much because it is such a large molecule that I am doubtful that even DMSO would be able to pull it in. Vitamin C will also increase collagen production, so it will likely work well with the collagen, and C is anti-inflammatory and a good antioxidant. Application of a saturated solution of MSM, which you probably already have on hand, can be useful for the outside of the skin, followed by some vitamin e oil applied on top of the MSM, which may also be useful. MSM seems to penetrate the skin fairly quickly, and it also increases collagen production. It may allow the vitamin e to penetrate a little better while the sulfur content is reparative. Topically applied melatonin liquid may be even better than vitamin E since it is a more potent antioxidant as well as a more potent anti-inflammatory. I have not attempted to work on thinning skin previously, but these seem likely to help improve the overall condition of the skin and protecting what you have. When taken orally in the evening, the melatonin also upregulates the gene expression of the body's potent antioxidants such as Catalase, Glutathione Peroxidase, and Superoxide Dismutase. In contrast, melatonin itself is a very potent radical scavenger of multiple species. Applying melatonin liquid topically will get in your system and affect the antioxidant system accordingly because it readily enters tissues throughout the body. Let us know how it works out, ORH as this is a fairly common problem. Art
(United States)
05/21/2020
Collagen Side Effects
 (1) |
100% |
Processed collagen does not suit everyone!
Hi Gracie,
You are correct, not everything suits everyone and this goes for vitamins, supplements, herbs and prescription medications. Even something like vitamin D can not be taken by everyone. If the product was not compatible with you, I would definitely return it no matter how many pills are left in the bottle!
Even with prescription medications such as blood pressure medications, it always comes down to trial and error because nobody knows if one medication will work for an individual until they try it and that is the reason there are so many different blood pressure medications, because if one doesn't work or is incompatible with you, the doctor simply has you try another one. Supplements are the same, trial and error. I try to report the ones that show success in studies or people or both. Thank you for the feedback, Gracie! Positive feedback is nice, but it is also good to know about the downside too.
Art
(UK)
10/13/2020
Hi Art,
Thank you for the kindness and wisdom contained in your response to my letter. In the past I've tried two different types of collagen, one bovine sourced, the other marine, and had negative reactions to both. Brain fog, overwhelming tiredness, not wanting to do anything, so I should have known better than to try Dr Emil's version. I believe it was the success your friend had in taking the supplement, and all the different types of collagen in it that persuaded me to give it a try. Plus I was desperate because the arthritis in my right knee had spread to my left hip and I needed a solution!
I've taken many supplements in the past to stay well and have been relatively successful, so when I read of your recommendation for Amla I couldn't resist. I know you recommended it for memory loss, and my need is a solution for arthritis, I decided to give it a try because it is said to be good for so many ailments. I purchased the Amla in powder form (the taste is not good), along with Moringa (taste again not good), also a capsule filling device, and have been taking these two supplements to help with the arthritis and general health. And have been waking up filled with a wellspring of happiness and the arthritis pain at a more manageable level.
Amla has been used in Avedic medicine for centuries, and I feel it to be relatively safe, so thank you for the recommendation.
Best wishes.
Hi Gracie,
Thank you for the reply and I'm sorry that the collagen was not helpful for you. I guess your previous issues with collagen were the warning.
The Amla is a very impressive supplement with the long history of healthful benefits that you mentioned and is the reason why it was the first supplement I offered to my friend to try and get her off of her prescription meds.
It has antioxidant and antiinflammatory qualities and at the amounts used has shown the ability to lower certain inflammatory mediators such as IL-1b, IL-6, TNF alpha and NF Kappa b. It also very significantly increases glutathione by up to 50% in just 12 weeks! Both antiinflammatory and antioxidant effects are likely what is helping your knee. You said you have tried many supplements, but have you tried, borax, MSM or boron yet for the arthritis as longer term remedies? I can recommend a couple of topical pain relievers, but they only offer temporary pain relief, but don't offer longer term relief as borax, MSM or boron can. There are also homeopathic remedies I can suggest.
I've even used borax topically for arthritic hands, but have not tried it that way for a knee or a hip. I made it into a lotion for the hands. Oral borax was a game changer for me and has kept my arthritis in remission for well over 12 years now and it was severe arthritis!
Colloidal silver has also been suggested for arthritis and while I have used colloidal silver a lot, I have not tried it for that purpose and since my arthritis is now nil, I can't even test it on myself first for arthritis.
Art
(Virginia USA)
01/03/2024
Like Gracie, I tried the combo brand you recommended but had the same side effects that made it unusable for me. I switched to a different brand of just type II but it's not been all that effective despite being on it since July 2023z
I'm taking 6 mg daily of boron but haven't tried straight borax. The boron removed my brain fog which was a pleasant surprise! My 24/7 pain is related to overuse of antibiotics coupled with a 40-year-old set of pelvic fractures which never healed properly. On top of that my cartilage is nearly gone in both hip sockets. So both legs constantly ache; and I have sharp low back pain from the osteoarthritis.
Do you feel borax would be beneficial for me?
Hi Betsy,
I also tried 3 mg, 6 mg and 9 mg of boron before trying borax and it offered no benefit at all. I wasn't taking boron individually, but rather it was included in the glucosamine multi supplement I was taking at 3 mg per serving. In desperation I had increased the glucosamine supplement to 3 daily servings to try to reduce my arthritis pain. This effectively increased my boron intake to 9 mg/day, but this resulted in no benefit in terms of pain relief as my arthritis was significantly advanced by that time in my life.
I read about Ted's borax recommendation for arthritis and eventually went out and bought a box of 20 Mule Team Borax. That box sat on my shelf for about 3 months before I finally got the nerve to give it a try. It wasn't easy for me to try a laundry booster orally, but I finally tried Ted's dose of 1/4 teaspoon of borax for men mixed in the quart of water and drank the full quart each weekday and took the weekends off. The results for me were life changing because this put my arthritis into remission and has kept it there for about 15 years now.
Borax does not work for everybody because some people are unable to tolerate it and I have seen this happen in a couple of friends, but judging by reports on EC, it seems to help the majority of people who have tried it, but like anything else, it requires taking it to find out if it will help you or not.
Ted's dose for women is half of the men's dose or 1/8 teaspoon in a quart of water consumed in full each weekday with weekends off.
To give an idea of how much boron the dose of borax contains, borax is said to contain approximately 11.3% boron. On my digital milligram scale, my 1/4 teaspoon of borax weighs in at about 985 mg. Multiply this times .113 or .113 x 985 = 111.35 mg of boron in the men's dose and half of that or (111.35 /2=55.6525 mg) approximately 55 mg in the women's daily dose. A note of warning, not all 1/4 teaspoons are exactly the same size, so the dose can vary depending on your 1/4 teaspoon.
The original discoverer of the use of borax/boron for arthritis, Dr. Rex Newnham used lower dosing than Ted, but he also found it effective for many people with arthritis decades before Ted. So it seems the effective dose is not carved in stone, but it is the dose that Ted recommended for men that worked very effectively for me, so that is the one I mention.
I think one of the reason that Ted suggested sipping the quart throughout the day was to essentially create a timed released dose that would be less likely to have negative side effects on the gastrointestinal system because sipping would help prevent large concentrations of the high pH borax in the digestive system at any one time, potentially reducing the potential for gastric upset or discomfort, that some users have reported and found intolerable. There is always the possibility that a person can be allergic to almost anything, including borax and I did see this in one friend who was not able to take borax. So that has been my experience with borax for arthritis and I am very glad that I finally decided to test borax. I was at a point pain wise where I felt I had to at least test it. It is also worth mentioning that boron/borax has shown potential benefit for osteoporosis/ osteopenia as I discussed here :
https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/osteoporosis-supplements-art-solbrig.html
Lastly, based on multiple friend's experiences with melatonin lotion for various body aches including arthritis, I think melatonin lotion that they made themselves is turning out to be quite useful. You can read about their results and how they made their melatonin lotion at home with simple and common ingredients here :
https://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/topical-melatonin-pain-relief-success-stories.html
You might also read the replies to the original article as there is more reporting or updating there.
Art
Healed Bad Knees and Hips
★★★★★
My knees were loose in their sockets in 2015, but their cartilage filled in back to normal in 4 months by taking a capsule of chicken sternum mornings. In 2016, another person canceled their hip replacement during 6 months of taking the chicken sternum capsules. During the same 6 months, a friend of the hip replacement person could not stand in the buffet line without having to sit down because of knee pain, but ended up canceling their knee replacement by taking the chicken sternum and was walking around normally as if the knee had never hurt. More recently in April of 2020, another 86 year old person's severe knee pain was healed within 4 months of taking a capsule per day of the Swanson chicken sternum.
A bottle of 120 capsules currently costs about $15 from Swanson: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-chicken-sternum-cartilage-collagen-type-ii-500-mg-120-caps
Also fromPipingRock: https://www.pipingrock.com/chicken-collagen/chicken-sternum-collagen-type-ii-500-mg-120-capsules-8483
Thomas Lewis, Thank you for the testimonial on chicken sternum! Chicken sternum is type II collagen, which is one of the five types of collagen found in the supplement I mentioned that worked well for my friend. The most abundant collagen form found in humans is type I, which is also contained in the supplement that he used along with three other forms of collagen plus Bioperine, which acts to improve absorption of the collagen supplement. I feel that the use of five types of collagen plus the Bioperine may offer more in terms of what the body can utilize and how well the body will be able to use this supplement. The other supplement he tried also contained the type II chicken sternum based collagen, but was ineffective for him, so this is the reason for naming a specific product that worked for this particular case involving torn tendons and ligaments. The amount of each collagen type in the noted supplement is not given in any of the supplements I looked at on Amazon, just that they contain five different types of collagen. But type I collagen is the most abundant type in humans, so it is likely to be important for the maintenance of tendons and ligaments. None of the cases you mentioned involved torn tendons or ligaments as my friend had as confirmed by a dye contrast MRI, so they are not exactly comparable to his situation and what worked for him. Not to say that your recommendation does not work for what you stated, just that this is not the same supplement or tendon issues that my friend used successfully for his torn tendons and ligaments. This can be a significant issue for people on statins and or Ciprofloxacin. As stated in the original post, he had multiple regimens of Ciprofloxacin before his MRI. Not quite the same, as his situation with the prior Ciprofloxacin use, which has shown that it can seriously damage tendons as outlined in this link. https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a688016.html Art
(Nashville, TN)
05/15/2022
Levaquin can also damage tendons - it's in the same family of drugs as Cipro - they're both in the same family of toxic drugs that have black box warnings -fluoroquinolones. Glutathione IVs are supposed to be good for the detoxification of these drugs.
The Multi Collagen Plus looks like a great product and maybe adding hyaluronic acid powder (sodium hyaluronate) to the Multi Collagen would help with the tendons and ligaments. That's kind of how it happened with my ankle. The ankle probably being mostly tendons and ligaments, 1/4 level tsp (about 440 mg) of BulkSupplements' hyaluronic acid (HA) powder mornings helped my sprained ankle in combo with 500 mg chicken sternum, 1 level tsp of hydrolized bovine collagen powder and 4 calcium hydroxyapatite (CH) capsules per day, which equals 1 gram of calcium total from the CH. HA is sticky, but I just put the HA powder on my tongue and take a sip of water, letting the water soak into the HA for 30 seconds. Then scrape off the gelatinous HA on roof of mouth and swallow it with more water. Even though chicken sternum does have natural HA and chondroitin, it was only after I added the hyaluronic acid powder that my sprained ankle became better, although not perfect but improved. Therefore, I see HA as a lubricant for connective tissue. Chicken sternum doesn't work every time, and didn't work for my shoulders, which are somewhat compromised but usable.
Thomas Lewis, I agree with the HA as I used it for degenerative disc disease (DDD), as explained to us by Ted, many years ago. He had created a formulation that we could make and would last close to a week per mix in the refrigerator. It was adequate for that purpose until I found borax, which resolved my problems for over a decade. I think you are also correct about HA acting as a lubricant, and I believe it also acts as a cushion. For your shoulders, magnesium chloride spray oil or mag oil (MO) may help ease some of the pain if you haven't already tried it as it is prevalent on this forum. Here is a link to a typical product. Read some of the reviews to get an idea of the many uses that people have found for MO. https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Spray-STRENGTH-Essential/dp/B01N0KQ9QJ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=mag+oil&qid=1590084926&sr=8-6 People think it is good to take borax until the pain goes away and then take a break from it. Still, I believe in following Ted's advice of continuous use with weekends off because borax does much more than put arthritis into remission. To get those other benefits, ongoing use may be a way to go. It helps to protect the skeletal structure and helps to ameliorate osteoporosis, and its boron content is useful with vitamin D and vitamin D cofactors in helping to get and keep calcium where it is most beneficial. Art
(Minnesota)
05/21/2020
Hello Roger, I too have had all those issues and tried all those therapies. But now at 70 yrs, I feel I have found the highlight of my 45+ yrs of research! I found a 20 YR OLD Stem Cell Technology Research Company that just received another 20 yr Patent last week making that now about 100 Int'l patents. It just activates the Stem Cells in your own body using Photobiomodulation/Photo Therapy. This is regenerative, Age Reversing and Ground Breaking technology! (See product for NIRVANA TOO!) Check out the video here: https://lifewaveX39.com/turnonstemcells God Bless You in your regeneration! Sharon
Hi again, Roger! I'm back as I said I would be. First, it may be helpful to add vitamin C with the collagen as vitamin C will help by increasing collagen production itself, but the combo is likely to be better than collagen by itself. I will be updating this thread on that point as my friend has added vitamin C to his regimen a little ways back and said he will give me feedback on whether he feels it is helpful very soon. Here are three things you can try if you haven't already tried them. You should be able to use these alongside the collagen supplement without changing the outcome from the collagen and possibly getting some pain relief until the collagen starts taking effect. One product is magnesium oil spray (MO). MO can relieve pain, relax tense muscles, quickly relieve muscle spasms and cramps, reduce inflammation and swelling such as a twisted ankle and also add to your total magnesium intake. It is not the most potent topical pain reliever, but it may help with the pain. Here is a link below and please read some of the reviews to see what all people use MO for. The first item is the simplest, Ibuprofen or Naproxen in soft gel version, whichever you prefer and generic is fine. Put a few squirts of any hand and body lotion of your choice into a shot glass or other small container. Take one softgel and puncture it with a toothpick. Squeeze the oil out of the softgel into the shot glass with the lotion. Use the toothpick or a straw to stir the two ingredients together well. When thoroughly mixed apply to both knees. This will confine the Naproxen or Ibuprofen to the area where pain relief is needed without having a negative impact on the digestive system and will allow you to reach local tissue concentrations that are as high or higher than the max dosage for either product taken orally. Wash your hands well when done. https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-Spray-STRENGTH-Essential/dp/B01N0KQ9QJ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=mag+oil&qid=1590084926&sr=8-6 https://www.swansonvitamins.com/natrabio-the-arnica-rub-4-fl-oz-cream Lastly you can try making a saturated solution of MSM in water and applying topically as needed. If you decide to try any of these, I would start with the Naproxen or Ibuprofen. MO would be next unless you already have it in which case I would try it first, because even if it is not helpful enough for the pain, you will probably find it useful for other issues. The second product is a homeopathic blend and to me, has slightly better pain relieving quality than MO, but is not as versatile as MO. The third item, MSM is kind of hit and miss and some people find it very pain relieving and others such as myself, get little if any pain relief from MSM. If you have any questions, just post them and I will get back to you. Art
(United States)
05/22/2020
Thank you Art, I do have some MO and have tried it on my knees without much relief. I still spray it on legs daily. I'm also taking a lot of magnesium in supplement form. Time will tell. That is a great idea about mixing Advil with lotion, I will give that a try. I do take MSM daily and have used a lotion containing MSM, but have not tried the saturated MSM, that might be worth a try. I have tried borax for a while off and on over the last couple years. Never seemed to help much. I'll try the other two items you mentioned and see if that can give me a little relief. Thanks.
Roger,
If the topical naproxen or ibuprofen is not enough relief, do not order the homeopathic cream as it is approximately equivalent to those two in terms of pain relief, but a more natural alternative that some people prefer. Myself, I find naproxen more effective than ibuprofen, but I am allergic to naproxen so I can't use it.
Let me know how you do with the naproxen cream.
Art
Updates
★★★★★
Yes, her hair looked like it belonged on a 30 year old!!! It had not only filled in her thinning areas, it was thick, full and dense! She was thrilled and told me how she had just been to her hairdresser and she was shocked at the difference! Her hairdresser immediately wanted to know what my neighbor had done and she said she started using a specific collagen supplement that I had suggested for her. Her hairdresser wanted to know exactly what it was!
My neighbor went on to tell me that her friend was also amazed at the change and she wanted to try it too!
Overall, this product is producing pretty amazing results for more than just torn ligaments and tendons!
Art
Where to Buy
★★★★★
I have been using the collagen supplement you recommended to strengthen tendons since my shoulder had been hurting and seemed to be getting worse. Anyway, I bought it on Amazon as you posted, but when I went to buy another bottle, I went directly to the site of the maker to give him my business, and he (was, is? ) offering two free bottles, postage paid, for a positive review. I received mine today. Just wanted to pass this along because supplement costs can add up and I was just speechless at this offer. Thanks for suggesting this collagen. RSW
Hi RSW,
Yes, they had been doing that, but very recently I recommended it to another friend and they did not offer them the other two free bottles. They're over 22,000 reviews now, so they probably figure they have enough reviews.
When they asked me for a review, they did not say it had to be a positive review, just that a review was required in order to get the other 2 bottles and they always delivered the extra bottles to all of the people I have recommended it to up until this friend that I last recommended it to.
On a related note, a friend that I recommended it to had been taking a popular collagen supplement for years and never got any benefit from it, but this one thickened her hair to a level of a much younger woman, but the first friend I recommended it to saw no difference in his hair, but he did get a tremendous benefit for his torn tendons and ligaments, which is remarkable!
Art
