Ted's Borax & Peroxide Mange Treatment for Dogs

We haven't seen Mika for the last four weeks - then my daughter tells me that Mika is pulling her fur out. I went to see her and Mika's coat is looking thin and her belly is red and sore looking. I suggested that my daughter take Mika to the vet. I took Kody to the vet. The vet took a nit comb down Kody's back and announced that it wasn't fleas. The vet looked at Kody's stomach, which is mainly a beautiful healthy pink but had about half a dozen red spots and a couple of black head-looking spots on it. The vet announced that Kody had a bacterial infection and prescribed anti-biotics. I

was concerned about Kez getting this and the vet said it wasn't contagious (I thought anything bacterial was contagious?). Kez has nothing - no itching, no red spots. Kody has been on the anti-biotics for a week now and has a week to go but she's getting worse. Now she's nibbling at herself and has broken the skin in a couple of places. She's mainly nibbling her legs, sides and thigh but she's still scratting at her neck and ears. Given all this info could anyone tell me what they think this is? Kez has no symptoms whatsoever - but then she avoided Mika and, although Kez and Kody get on really well, they don't contact so much with each other physically. Mika and Kody had very close contact - laying on each other and play biting each other a lot.

Today I'm going to start this borax and H2O2 treatment on Kody because she's getting miserable with this. I was going to take her back to the vet but my trust in vets, particularly after the last visit and after reading this forum, isn't so high. Kody is a healthy and strong dog, I can't think that her immune system is low because she's generally very healthy but I'm going to get her the supplements suggested on here anyway because she's had the anti-biotics.

Any ideas from anybody would be appreciated - I'm not sure what I'm dealing with and given that skin scrapings are so unreliable, by all accounts, I don't want to go down that road. I certainly don't want to use toxic chemicals on an otherwise very healthy dog. And I'm dreading the thought that Kez starts to itch because she's a rescue (four years ago) and isn't as easy to deal with as Kody who I've had from a pup. Kez is old and has arthritis and hates to be messed with - should I treat Kez "Just in case" or wait and see what happens? My gut says treat them both but I don't want to put Kez through unnecessary stress :-(

I have to say, that I for one have an excellent relationship with my vet, he doesn't scam me, isn't in it "just for the money", has talked me out of expensive tests that I insisted I needed [he was right, I didn't need them] and has always been fair with his pricing and when I thought things were expensive has always explained the bill in detail so I could see all fees charged were reasonable. Even if I don't like paying expensive vet bills, they are part of owning a pet and not all vets are crooks. So if you had a good relationship with your vet please do not let other's poor experiences change the way you relate to your vet.

Now, it is entirely possible your dogs have scabies mites; this is a contagious form of mange and as you already know, skin scrapings by their very nature can be hit or miss. If these were my dogs I would treat all three with the mange remedy. Do it twice the first week, and thoroughly clean and launder all bedding. Keep this up once a week after the initial 2 dips for another 6 weeks.

Also, alkalizing may help if what you are seeing is NOT contagious and just a huge coincidence that the Dodgy Dog did not give your dogs a bug; it is entirely possible all three are dealing with allergies. So try this; 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda into 1 liter of drinking water, this as the only drinking water for 5 days, then drop down to 1/4 to 1 liter as a maintenance dose. When my dogs go through an episode of itchies I do this with their water and take it myself! If the dogs are reluctant to take the water I will do 1/4 into 1 liter for the first 2 days and then bump it up to 1/2 for 5 days and then drop down to the maintenance dose for 2 weeks. I don't keep them on the baking soda all the time, but during allergy season I will dose it 2-3 times a season.

I can't quite pin the symptoms on sarcoptic mange as it generally starts on the ears and face apparently and I can't see any hair loss at all on Kody - I can see, with my overly paranoid gaze, thinning of her fur on her thighs I think. It can't be demodectic because apparently that isn't contagious outside a litter situation. Kody only started nibbling at her legs and thighs yesterday.

I can't hurt her with this treatment can I, that's what I'm bothered about. Neither dog can live like this so something has to be done. Hopefully this borax and H2O2 treatment will sort it. If not then it's back in the hands of the vet but I'll be worried sick about the toxic treatment.

With the Borax and H2O2 treatment I gather that the situation will initially appear worse as the die off starts? I'm figuring that if it does get a little worse then it confirms that it is actually mites. Do you think that's so? And if it's been a flea bite allergy would it go on this long once any fleas that may have been on her have gone?

I've put the sodium bicarbonate in their water with a little borax as someone else suggested (I've taken this myself so I know its ok). I'll let you know how we get on.

My experience with sarcoptic mange/scabies is that it starts where it starts - no starting on the ears and face [text book for demodex] rather it just starts where it can - AND can be super tricky for your vet to figure it out until the situation becomes extreme, and thus readily apparent as to what the problem is.

The borax/hydrogen peroxide solution is not toxic, does not have an accumulative effect in the body at the cell level, and is effective. I have used it literally hundreds of times - it is my first "go to" when I see any skin issues in my pack. And it is not that I suspect each time I see a skin issue that it is the result of a parasitic mite, rather the solution has a broad spectrum appeal so covers mites and bacteria and yeast.

If it gets worse after application it could be mites - but without confirming with a microscope cannot be sure. And flea allergy simply means that your pet was exposed to fleas at some point in their life and developed an allergy to their bite; even if the environment if free of fleas, if on a walk your dog get's bit, then it will react accordingly.

One thing I do know is that dogs of any age can develop allergies to all sorts of things that they had no problem with prior. Perhaps your dog now has a grass allergy, or a pollen allergy. You sound like you are savvy on your critters so likely feeding a top diet, grain free kibble or RAW - but do check the ingredient panel and consider shopping around if you have been feeding the same brand for a number of years. Some find switching protiens to be of great benefit for dogs with food allergies, so they feed a beef diet one week [or one bag] and a fish diet the next, and then on to poultry, then pork, then venison, then duck - and so on.

I do think you are on the right track with alkalizing the water. Do try the dipping solution for the entire dog and consider doing it daily, right after your walk, on just the affected areas.

I'll do as you suggest and get her most obvious problem areas done again tomorrow. I'll sponge soak her outside I think, might be easier and less stressful for her (and me, it didn't do my back much good lifting her out quick to avoid her getting covered in the floating yellow goo she'd deposited in the bath). She has a black tipped topcoat so I expect that will turn colour as we progress but her black will come back won't it. I hate to see her so miserable with this horrible itching, I really hope this works.

The best food is the one she does the best on - there is no one brand I can suggest as it is an individual thing. I like to use the dogfoodadvisor.com website to search out different brands, and I try to feed only the top ranking diets. There are entirely grain free and potato free diets; one well respected diet that fits your criteria is 'Origen' - some people report great results feeding this diet, however I wasn't happy with the results for my pack; I suspect they need a bit more fat and more carbs due to our harsh winters. Again, this is for my dogs and you may have completely fantastic results feeding Bailey on this diet. One word of advice - since grain free diets are very concentrated you need to feed less, meaning if you normally feed 1 cup of grain/potato/meat kibble you should start off by feeding 3/4 cup of the meat based diet. If you see loose stools this is often the result of feeding too much of a calorie dense food, so try cutting it down to 1/2 cup, etc.

Keep an eye on the mammaries and feel around; *hard* lumps that feel like dried peas can be cancer, while extreme tenderness around a swollen knot could be mastitis.

This was from the poultry keepers blog which I visited just to make sure I am missing something. After reading a long column of woes, I sent them my condolences with a remark, here on EC sometime ago that a grandmother had yearly put lard under the wings of her flock. With success because she did it every year. Wish my dog had wings.

My big hound has probably red mite infestation. But as with all mites, they defy everything but nuclear fission. Last year I treated it with orange cleaner essential oil. Now, in the heat, it is back. They are all over the world; just read up and it raises ones heckles. They increase in the millions and invade house and home.

I treated my boy with Ted's but with his water dog fur it slides all off and it is worse thence. I have a little ten pound Maltese with mites. Easy to do but no noticeable results and with the treatment he looks like a toothbrush now.

As with my own mites, I have them sort of under control by means most people may not believe in. But they do make a difference. Firstly, mites do jump. They did from the used pillow I used once. Slowly my hair lost its beauty and I am still fighting the invasion in face and hair. Luckily, not the rest of my body. One poster on EC said that a green Led light would get them out of the eye socket and ears. Mine are invisible.

So, what I use is a mixture of Palma Christie (cold pressed castor oil) and VCO. If it does not go into the eyes one can add an essential oil to the mix. But even without essential oils, the eyes do well because they are killed evidently because of the "sleep" around the eyes.

Other posters in the past had mentioned the applying of ones saliva when the tickling is first noticed. This is very effective, I must agree. After application, no more bother. This points to the body's defensive mechanism designed for the individual constitution. This then leads to my no.1 weapon which is urine therapy (UT). This is the blueprint of ones own individual condition creating the anti bodies for everything out of balance. I use a washcloth and rub my face well with the result of very fine, perfect complexion and it is as good in the eyes. This what has helped a lot. Also the hair, which can be rinsed after half an hour or so. Being vegan the scent is very delicate and pleasant.

On the list is still flowers of sulfur, homeopathically as well. Added to which raw veggies processed and the only exception of grains is barley for our friends.

So, the Bees Knees is a number of toxic essential oils , clove, cedarwood (not for cats) rosemary, lavender. NEEM OIL interrupts the breeding cycle. These are all toxic to mites. Twenty drops of each one tsp of liquid soap and fill the spray bottle with water. Shake.

This is not inexpensive but has helped some.

Even our feathered friends have a lot to suffer from. Namaste, Om

Do you refer to Bees Knees Pomade? I am unable to find a mite spray under that name. I do recall Oxime for mite control in a poultry setting.

The amount needed for 1 bath is the amount needed to fully saturate both your dogs to the skin!

I have a quantity of dog/s and this remedy is my 'go to' when any sort of skin issue arises; I have also used it to successfully resolve demodectic mange in a puppy.

What I do is get an empty plastic 1 gallon jug so I can mix up a big batch. I get 1 brown bottle [16 oz] of 3% peroxide from the grocery store - and I pour that into the jug. I then use the empty brown bottle and fill that up twice with water and dump that into the jug with the peroxide. This gives me 48 oz of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide. I then add 1 full cup of borax [from the laundry aisle at the grocery store - plain, not scented] and shake it up. What you want is there to be so MUCH borax in the jug that it stops dissolving, leaving grains swirling around in the bottom of the jug. If you have a big dog you can use two jugs and mix up a super big batch - just make as much as you have dog.

What I then do is fill the bath tub with warm water and sit the jugs in it and let them get warmed up. When the water is just right I bathe my dog with regular shampoo and rinse well, making sure I use my hands to squeegee excess water off. I then plug up the tub when it is empty, and them pour the solution from the jug over the dog. I then use a plastic cup to scoop up solution from the bottom of the tub and pour it over the dog again and again for 20-30 minutes. I have done 2-3 dogs at a time to make the most of the solution. I then crate the dog in an empty crate - no bedding to absorb the solution - and let the dog sit in the crate with a chewy for another half hour so the solution can continue to work. After half an hour I let them out, towel them dry and brush the grains of borax off of the fur. You may want to bump up the temp in the house or put the dogs in a room with a space heater so they do not take a chill.

I use the dip for mange every other day for a total of 3 dips for the first week, and then once per week for a total of 12 weeks.

Good luck!

this is the formula I used:

1 16 oz brown bottle of 3% solution hydrogen peroxide from grocery store.

I dumped that into a jug and then added 2 bottles of filtered tap water using the now empty brown bottle from the hydrogen peroxide, giving me 48 oz of 1% hydrogen peroxide solution.

1 16 oz brown bottle of 3% solution hydrogen peroxide from grocery store.

I dumped that into a jug and then added 2 bottles of filtered tap water using the now empty brown bottle from the hydrogen peroxide, giving me 48 oz of 1% hydrogen peroxide solution.

Now, into the jug full of 1% solution I add 1 full cup of borax [from the laundry aisle at the grocery store]. Shake it up - there should be so MUCH borax in the solution that some grains remain and do not dissolve.

I then fill my bath tub with very warm water and set the jug in the tub; by the time the tub cools down enough to comfortably bathe the dog, the contents of the jug are nicely warmed also. Now bathe the dog with the shampoo of your choice and then rinse all the shampoo out. I drain the tub and when all the shampoo and water have drained, I plug it up again so it will again hold water. Then I shake up the solution in the jug and pour it all over the dog. I then use a plastic cup to scoop up the solution in the bottom of the tub and then pour that over the dog. Do this again and again, re-wetting the dog with the grainy solution, for at least 10 minutes. Next part: do NOT rinse the solution off the dog. Take your sopping wet dog and put him in a crate with no bedding; you want as much solution to remain wet on the dog while he sits in the crate - give it another half an hour in the crate to allow the solution to 'work'. After half an hour I let my dog out and towel dry, and then let him shake the grains of borax out of his coat. It helps to turn the heat up in the house so the dog isn't freezing while sitting wet in the crate. I have doubled the batch of solution simply because its so inexpensive and it makes it easier to saturate a big dog.

You should dip your dog in this solution every other day - 2 to 3 times the first week; after the first week do once per week for 8 weeks.

It occurred to me that you might have Chihuahuas and might not need 48 oz of solution :-)

The formula is this: 1% hydrogen peroxide + borax - you keep adding the borax until it stops melting/dissolving in the solution. This is called a 'saturated' solution where the liquid can take no more of the borax so it stops dissolving. As long as you add borax to the point that it no longer dissolves you don't need to worry so much about measuring it.

You make a 1% solution from the brown bottle from the grocery store - usually a 16 oz bottle of a 3% concentration of hydrogen peroxide - by adding 1 part hydrogen peroxide to 2 parts of water. So 1 cup of your 3% brown bottle solution to 2 cups water and you now have 3 cups of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide - and to this you add the borax.

Hope that helps!

So our 5 month old French Bulldog puppy got diagnosed after a scraping with demodex, and it is generalized. We have about 6 1-2 inch spots on her trunk, in front of both ears, middle of face, a big patch on back leg, large patches on front chest with consistent red bumps and pustules.

After all of my research and wanting to give her immune system the best chance at battling it off before using chemicals, I have put her on an great diet (no starches, grain free NutriSource), Nupro supplement, alaska fish oils, and more probiotics with a teaspoon of melted coconut oil on top.

I started doing the Ted's remedy baths exactly a week ago and have have done it three times this first week. I am hoping what I describe is a part of the healing crisis and would appreciate any insight:

So her spots started bald and after doing Ted's remedy once or twice, big red bumps and pus bumps/pustules started popping up in the bald spots only. In between Ted's treatments, I clean with povidone iodine twice a day and have mixed my own neem, lavender, tea tree oil in almond and vita E oil that I put on her at night.

So after a week, the red bumps are on all the previously smooth bald spots and open up, or turn pussy, but they are drying out even though they keep popping up.

I am assuming this is the onion/layer/healing crisis since demodex is so deep in the follicles and takes time to kill at the deepest source. And her skin is turning a darker color (almost purple). Is this normal to expect during the healing crisis? I know treatment of mange takes a while, but it's killing me to see her with so many red bumps/pustules.

Her energy levels are great, she plays/wrestles with our other dogs, eats well and is happy - no change in energy.

Any insight or experience with something similar would be great to hear - or if it sounds like I should take her in and give in to the chemicals (I DON'T want to do this since she's so young).

Thank you!

Lexi

IMHO what you are seeing is normal. When the mites experience a massive die-off, their decomposing bodies that are deep in the follicle release highly irritating toxins, resulting in the pustules that you are seeing.

You might consider using Ted's Anti-staph/Anti-fungal remedy to stack the deck against a secondary infection to the traumatized areas.

Take 1/3 cup of hydrogen peroxide [the bottle contains a 3% solution] and add 2/3 cup pure water; this gives you 1 cup of a 1% solution of hydrogen peroxide. To this add 1 teaspoon EACH of: Epsom salts, Borax, and Milk of Magnesia. Blend well until all crystals have dissolved and apply to the affected areas. This has a 'working' effect for 24 hours; you can apply daily or as needed.

So do you think the darkening of her skin is also a normal reaction during the die-off, healing crisis?

Thanks again,

Lexi

The darkening of the skin could be part of the normal pigmentation process that occurs as your pup matures and not related to the demodex at all - or it might be allergy related. What color is your pup?

She is mostly red, but has a black mask, but striped with white on her face, white chest, white belly and a few white spots on the top of her neck Everything else is red, except the slight black mask on her muzzle and ears.

She does have varying skin colors where she's hairless on her belly and it ranges from white to dark purplish. The infected spots that are turning color were first much more white and now are turning the purple color like what's on her belly. And they're turning darker on both the red and white parts of her body....hmmmmm, so after reading about black mange or hyperpigmentation being a bad sign, it got me worried that maybe this natural remedy isn't working! But her skin is flaking away where old bumps used to be, which to me is good!

I know beating this is a patient game and I'm just not that patient. :)

Thanks again,

Lexi (& June Bug)

What you are describing sounds like normal pigmentation for a pied -and sounds like you have a very pretty black masked fawn pied. In dogs where the skin turns dark from allergy, they are typically much older and have a history of allergy. I find with frenchies that the first year - demodex aside - tends to be fairly problem free, but the second season hits with a vengeance, and any allergies that did not appear in the first year manifest during the second.

One other thing you can do that may help/help a lot/certainly won't hurt - is alkalizing by adding baking soda to her water. There are two doses - 1/2 teaspoon into 1 liter of water, this as her only drinking water, for 5 days; the maintenance dose is 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 liter of water. When I notice that my pack of frenchies are starting to get the seasonal itchies, I do the crisis dose for a week, then drop down to the maintenance dose for another few weeks. I also take this myself while I treat the dogs ;-) So, this may help with the current demodex situation by balancing your dog's PH and thus making her less attractive to the demodex mites.

Did you find that if you let a female go into heat after having demodex as a puppy that she had another outbreak (or were the allergies that manifested the second year come after a heat)?

I will try the drinking water fix as well, thank you!

I can tell you that her itching flat out STOPPED last night (first night ever without itching!! ) and I had applied that anti-staph/yeast solution earlier in the day.

I will write again hopefully when she's fully recovered, but so far, Ted's remedies (and your faithful help) are curing little June Bug!

Thank you,

Lexi

I originally found this website because my brindle pied frenchie had demodex. The littermates had it also, but I was the only puppy person to go 100% drug free/wholistic in treating my puppy. The other puppy owners used Ivermectin and other drugs and out of them all my puppy healed up the fastest using Ted's Remedy. I find that after the first episode of puppy demodex that it does not return; should it appear in an adult dog it usually happens due to an underlying disease condition, or a very stressful event.

I find that for allergies, if you are going to be allergic to something, you need to first be exposed to it; this is where your immune system decides if it is friend or foe. Upon the next exposure the immune system has decided friend or foe and reacts accordingly. So, the first year your puppy may appear to be free of the seasonal allergies that affect so many frenchies - but next year, when the allergens are again exposed to your pup, the immune system will have an opinion, and you may find that your pup is sensitive to grasses or spring pollens or fall pollens or the mold that occurs during the spring melt off on your lawn.

Please keep us posted on June Bug!

I need some encouragement in keeping the faith with these natural remedies...

So I was curious how long it took your Frenchie pup to recover from mange using Ted's remedy (and how bad was yours)?

Also, how long does the healing crisis last ... I know it is supposed to get worse before it gets better but it seems like it's spreading (I'm guessing that the mites are angry and moving from a previously infected spot to a new one close by??)

Just trying to manage my expectations!

Thank you! Lexi

Demodex typically takes months to resolve. I want to say my puppy took 12 weeks of treatment. She had generalized demodex according to the definitions, but I think the definitions are kinda screwy, ie if on the face only it is localized. Mine had spots on the face, on the legs, on the trunk - more than 6 that I recall; I am wishing now I took photos! I gave her 2-3 baths the first two weeks and then weekly thereafter. Mine got worse before it got better, so much so I ordered a bunch of other remedies *just in case*. By the time the other remedies arrived in the mail I could clearly see the remedy was working after all, so I did not use the additional remedies I had purchased. If I had to recommend a second remedy, I would mix up sulpher flowers in castor oil and apply that to the spots... but I really think you should hold off on and just wait one more week.

There appear to be some species or strains of demodex mites that do not respond to this remedy. However make sure you are doing it right; making a saturated solution by adding so much borax that the grains of borax do not fully dissolve; treat the entire dog, not just select parts; dip your dog in the solution for at least 10 minutes straight, working the grainy solution down to the skin, and then put in a crate with no bedding and allow to drip dry for half an hour - after that I let them out and towel them off and work the grains of borax out of their coat; it is like they run around the house leaving 'sand' all over when the dried borax falls off.

It sounds as if a secondary staph infection may have set in; if you wish to stay with the holistic as opposed to getting antibiotics, use the Staph remedy daily if not twice daily. Boost immune system with Vitamin C, Echinacea and Zinc. It is advised to keep demodex dogs calm and stress free, however I am not sure that is possible with a 5 month old puppy.

Was your puppy on a regular worming schedule from the breeder? Being parasite free on the inside will help.

It is not likely that the mites are migrating to infect new spots, rather, the populations of mites were already present in what appeared to be unaffected areas and the treatment is causing those populations of mites to die, and the decomposing bodies of the mites are releasing toxins which are irritating, causing the itching, redness and pustules.

When I got her, she did have worms (the breeder had her on an OTC mild puppy wormer). I noticed her stools were mucousy and sure enough, when I looked closer, there were tapeworm segments. I got a strong, broad spectrum dewormer (one dose) from the vet and she passed dead tape worm segments and one HUGE roundworm. I wonder if that dewormer/chemical made her immune system even more susceptible??

Anyway, now she's worm free, but demodex full. :/

I am definitely making the remedy right and I keep her in the sink and keep squeezing it over her skin for about 20 minutes each time and let her air dry. Her oldest spots seem to be getting better - at least they're not continuing to have new red bumps/pustules. But other spots have lost more hair/spread and are all ridden with the red spots and little pustules.

I am doing the anti-staph (really dries it out) and I recently discovered Homeopet First Aid ointment (has all sorts of great things in it, echinacea, sulphur, chamomile, etc. in mineral oil) and that is helping quite a bit.

It's just tough keeping the faith during this healing crisis. If yours had the healing crisis/die off effect, how long did it last?

And should I keep doing the aggressive Ted treatment (3x/week) for more than two weeks? Or what should be my indicator to back off to the once/week schedule?

Thanks again! Lexi

When I got her, she did have worms (the breeder had her on an OTC mild puppy wormer). I noticed her stools were mucousy and sure enough, when I looked closer, there were tapeworm segments. I got a strong, broad spectrum dewormer (one dose) from the vet and she passed dead tape worm segments and one HUGE roundworm. I wonder if that dewormer/chemical made her immune system even more susceptible??

Anyway, now she's worm free, but demodex full. :/

I am definitely making the remedy right and I keep her in the sink and keep squeezing it over her skin for about 20 minutes each time and let her air dry. Her oldest spots seem to be getting better - at least they're not continuing to have new red bumps/pustules. But other spots have lost more hair/spread and are all ridden with the red spots and little pustules.

I am doing the anti-staph (really dries it out) and I recently discovered Homeopet First Aid ointment (has all sorts of great things in it, echinacea, sulphur, chamomile, etc. in mineral oil) and that is helping quite a bit.

It's just tough keeping the faith during this healing crisis. If yours had the healing crisis/die off effect, how long did it last?

And should I keep doing the aggressive Ted treatment (3x/week) for more than two weeks? Or what should be my indicator to back off to the once/week schedule?

So I wanted to specify how much worse it's gotten after 2 weeks of Ted's remedy 3x/week:

Existing spots are all red, bumpy and have pustules.

New spots have popped up - her biggest area on her chest is spreading down her entire arm to her toe. Three new separate spots have popped up in independent areas, and the spot on her head is spreading as well.

Does this sound normal? Or should I be worried her mites aren't reacting to Ted's remedy?

So far everything has gotten worse...some of her older spots may be getting better - they don't have as many red bumps and are darker in color. But other than that, it's spreading and new spots are popping up (all with red skin and bumps.)

I'm just feeling anxious...ah!

Thanks, Lexi

After re-reading all your posts and updates, to me it sounds like June Bug has a systemic bacterial infection going on and very likely needs antibiotics. The remedy is working on the mites, but the secondary bacterial infection is fighting from the inside out, so the topical solutions will only work so far. You can go the 100% natural route and possibly avoid dosing antibiotics, but I think you would have an entirely bald very unhappy dog if you do down that path.

If this were my dog I would throw in the towel and see the vet. They will prescribe an antibiotic, which IMHO is appropriate; this means stopping the probiotics for the duration of the antibiotic treatment [2-3 weeks]. They will prescribe an antimiticide such as daily oral Ivermectin which is a human drug; at this juncture I consider dosing it for 5 days. I would NOT use Amitraz dips, which are both spendy and IMHO highly toxic, or Milbemycin Oxime.

I would additionally consider worming her for roundworm at least 1 more time if not 2-3 more times as the worming schedule you outlined was not sufficient for roundworm.

I know you are feeding good groceries but you may wish to try RAW or switch to a diet that has zero grains and potatoes to help starve the mange mites from the inside out. I would consider adding 500mg vitamin C and echinacea to the mix am and pm. I would also consider using homeopathic Sulpher.

I would back off on the dipping in the remedy to 1x week, and consider doing a essential oil of lavender and Neem oil rinse on the other days to help calm the skin. The Homeopet salve sounds like a winner, and I would use that on the spots that ask for it or the home made combo you were using prior.

I threw the towel in this morning after feeling June Bug's very enlarged lymph nodes under her jaw late last night and after reading your post this morning...

Loved my vet today (new vet). After a "taping" of all her spots, it came back exhaustingly (depressingly) positive for staph and cocci. She prescribed dewormer (2 doses over the next 2 weeks) and antibiotics only and told me to keep at the supplement immune building, the benzoyl peroxide/sulfur/salicylic acid baths with my DermabenSS shampoo (but not more Ted's for a week at least). She didn't want to do any Ivermectin until we got the secondary bacterial infection under control. I really respected this...she said she wants to get the discomfort under control and give it a few months before we put the anti-miticide chemicals in her. So after I get the bacterial infections under control, she wants me to try again with Ted's.

I have been feeding a no grain/no potato food source (NutriSource kibble) with Alaskan fish oils (live the closest to it! ), coconut oil and probiotics along with all immune building supplements.

And because I've done the lavender/neem/tea tree, etc., we decided with the antibiotics to keep things simple and only treat skin topically with coconut oil.

I will certainly keep you posted and thank you again for all your help...it has been much appreciated and I hope our conversation can help someone else!

Forgot to mention that the taping results came back negative for yeast, which is a relief in some way. At least we're just battling bacteria...!

Lexi

Looks like you scored big time with the new vet! My vet also utilizes tapping, among other approaches. So glad you are on the right track with June Bug!

So we're on day 4 of antibiotics and things are already looking a bit better.

However, my gut is saying that I shouldn't take a break from treating the mites or I am losing precious time since I do believe I was going through a major die-off.

I think the hydrogen peroxide mix was too irritating and read that there is a Ted's version using apple cider vinegar as the borax carrier...if this is correct, do you have a recipe for that? And experience with it?

Thanks again!

Lexi

I agree with you, but not sure you need to act *now*; I think you could hold off a few more days to allow the skin to heal. How many treatments with Ted's remedy did June Bug get? 2-3 the first week, and then once per week up until just a few days ago?

You only need to dip once per week - this in keeping with the life cycle of the mite. Can you follow this up with a moisturizing bath/treatment an hour or two after the dip? I would suspect with her skin healing up now that the secondary bacterial infection is being treated, her skin would be less irritated with the 1% hydrogen peroxide.

I have not used the recipe with vinegar, although I know I read about it - I just can't find it, particularly now that everything seems to be sorted out ;-). What I have read - what I could find - is that vinegar is likely to be far more irritating/will sting. I have used the solution with cuts on my own hands and also done vinegar rinses on my dogs and the vinegar does sting the raw skin whereas the 1% hydrogen peroxide did not -this from my own personal experience.

All that said I was able to find this for you:

Posted by Kc (Newtown, Ct) on 04/05/2010

[YEA] It worked!!! Thank you Ted! I was so stressed out when my dog started to show signs of mange. I made this remedy using 1 part Apple cider vinager (AC vinager instead of peroxide because I didnt want to "highlight" her black fur) to 2 parts water, and added borax laundry detergent until it wouldnt dissolve anymore. I put her in the tub and splashed on the solution until she was soaked, no gloves needed. I used a cottonball for around her eyes. I then washed every pillowcase, blanket, and rug that I could and sprinkled the borax powder all over the rest including the couch. Left that overnight and vacumed it up the next day. It was winter outside and I admit it wasnt fun for anyone to have a soaking wet dog running around, but it was worth it. Immediately the itching stopped. Within the first few day, I could see improvement. I did this intense house cleaning and borax soak with her once a week for 4 weeks and In 5 WEEKS it was completely gone! Thank you thank you thank you. Super easy, SO MUCH HEALTHIER, and wicked cheap!

- See more at: https://www.earthclinic.com/pets/dog_mange_cure7.html#sthash.47KmmrB8.dpuf

I did Ted's 3x for the first two weeks and she had her last one 5 days ago. So I will wait a few more days and if she's scab free, I'll give the ACV one a try. If not, I'll stick with the hydrogen peroxide so she doesn't get stung.

I'll keep you posted!

Thank you,

Lexi

So I wanted to post an update on June Bug. We had her on antibiotics for about 5 weeks which helped a lot, continued to do Ted's during the first 3 weeks of antibiotics and then I just backed off and stuck with benzoyl peroxide shampoos 2-3 times a week.

I also did a grain free diet, Standard Process Canine Immune Support supplement, Alaska Fish Oils, NUPRO supplement and sardines annnnnd...took her in for scrapings a couple days ago and all of the spots came back negative for mites! They only saw a few from 2 scrapings on her face, but it looks like we are winning the battle doing it all naturally (aside from the antibiotics)!

Her skin was pretty ravaged by the mites (BIG blackheads in some spots and little superficial blackheads all over the previously affected spots and I'd say she lost 30% of her hair all together), but hair has started growing back at a fast pace these last couple of weeks.

I almost gave up multiple times and went with Ivermectin or some other chemical, but so glad I stuck with Ted's and the immune building diet protocol! It can work, and it has been for June Bug.

Thanks again, Lexi

Good Luck & have fun. :-)

Have you taken your dog to the vet for a diagnosis? Demodectic mange in a 7 year old dog usually means something deeper is going on. Sarcoptic mange is something your dog can catch from wild animals, and would require his entire living space to be decontaminated to avoid catching it again. However what you describe could also be allergies, which commonly develop in dogs as they age.

As for bathing options, it certainly would be good to start with Ted's mange dip to see if the itching your dog improves. There are places you can take your dog that offer grooming services and some offer DIY dog washing space. Check out your local [and often big chain] pet food stores to see if they offer grooming or DIY dog washing.

Additionally, what you feed your dog can make all the difference; if you are feeding Ol' Roy or Purina then a grocery upgrade is needed; look for grain free diets and expect to feed for 6 weeks before you see improvement. Consider adding probiotics - good bacteria - in the form of yogurt or capsules from the refrigerator section of the health food store.

Lastly, consider alkalizing your dog's drinking water. Add 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 liter of water and have this as the only source of drinking water for your dog. Mix it up fresh and only offer when the baking soda has stopped fizzing. After 1 week you can reduce to 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda, and after 2 weeks you can reduce to a maintenance dose of 1/4 teaspoon in to 1 liter of water.

I work in rescue and pulled a dog from a high kill shelter 5 days ago. She has been to the vet and is being treated for both demodectic and sarcoptic mange. How contagious is sarcoptic to humans? We interact with her a lot, so my number 1 concern is my children.

Thank you!

Yes, Sarcoptic Mange affects humans. I began fostering a dog a year ago. She was underweight and very itchy. It took three vets for a correct diagnosis, and a fourth for successful treatment.

Meanwhile, I had bites on my arms and my scalp was crawling. Our daughter had bites on her face. My husband had bites on his legs. We kept being told that the canine variant of the scabies bug can't complete its lifecycle on humans. Well, I can tell you from personal experience that that is not true! There have been documented cases. But for some reason, they're not talked about in the medical or veterinary communities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21540570

It's been a year and I'm still fighting the mites on me and my family. Keeping the dog away from everyone has helped them. But I continue to have problems, probably because I still take care of the dog.

We were all cured on Thanksgiving, but the little bastards came back by Christmas. Dog is back on Revolution every two weeks. But we humans continue to struggle with the bugs. For me, its a daily battle. For the others, just an occasional annoyance.

So far, we've had improvement (but no cure) from Neem Oil, Ivermectin (orally and topically), and Permethrin (topically). I just started the Borax and H2O2, so the jury is still out on that one. It seems promising, though. (The others did, too, so I've become very skeptical.)

I hope for your family's sake that you got it under control and they're okay. Because it's awful, really it is.

Dr. Bronner's soap, the original one with Tea Tree in it, use as body/hand wash as well as shampoo. Allow it to sit on your skin/hair for a bit before washing it off.

Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, use a bit after washing body/hair, again let it sit for a bit. ACV internally, I use tablets as nobody in my family can stand the taste.

Garlic and/or Oregano suppliments. Clay detox.

I washed our dog's towels in hot, hot water with borax and peroxide, let it sit all soapy for a bit drying on a hot cycle. I used diatomatious earth on his dog bed in between washings, also a bit on his kibble. I adopted a pit bull mix, sweetest dog in the world, who suffered with horrific mange. Poor thing looked like someone had poured hot bacon grease over his back the mange was so bad and the pads of his feet would swell up twice the normal size and he could hardly walk. After literally spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars in vet bills, prescription shampoo that was so harsh it irritated his already tender skin, multiple antibiotics, cancer drugs (really! ! ), diet restrictions and more,all with NO actual effect on the mange at all, just my bank drained account, a well paid vet and a very, very miserable dog, I was at my witts end.

My husband was using Dr. Bronner's soap and I thought that since the problem was due to mites, they probably wouldn't want to be "minty fresh" from the soap or to be "pickled" by the ACV. Bingo! It worked like a charm! Finally after years and years of suffering he was "cured" and he loved, loved his bath time! Sadly he passed due to diabetes. I'm convinced that his immune system was so damaged due to chronic mange problems. Hope this helps you all and good luck!

ps--I also put Borax and Peroxide in my pets water. Thanks!

Vet diagnosed demodex and gave Advocate - every 2 weeks for 6 weeks, then monthly for few months. This improved demodex. Went onto raw diet (sorted continence issue - she is too small to contain the bulk of non-raw food needed to give her enough energy! ). Eyes I realised over time have many issues - allergy, dry eye (I think from demodex?), getting things in her eyes because she is so small (I now flush them with saline 3 times a day; sometimes she has rocks in there..and use Optimmune - tried everything natural can think of but this seems to help most as she no longer gets really sticky lumps on her eyeballs).

She still, though, had residual signs of demodex. When I look at her skin in the balder areas with a jewellers eye glass (inner elbows, tummy, muzzle, between toes) she has blackheads. And she gets itchy (could also be allergy). I have been doing the demodex baths (not as often as weekly) and using cotton wool pads to wipe mixture over those areas daily between baths, and she is now beginning to grow hair in areas I thought would be permanently bald! I wondered if the blackheads are casts of the demodex, or a physical reaction to them? Also, she would regularly get sores around her vulva, which was ridden with blackheads (I wondered if there could be a kind of hive in some areas?) and some sore patches on her skin with the same blackheads - these have all cleared up with daily wiping over with the mixture. I'm hoping that her immunity is now stronger, so that she will have more resistance to them returning.

I imagine that low immunity leads to the demodex taking hold, and in turn the demodex further lowers immunity?

Would definitely say this is a convoluted yay! The mixture is working for sure.

Very grateful for this website! Thanks, Debbie

I have seen the blackheads on some of my worse demodex cases, so I would agree that the blackheads are dead mites/reaction to decomposing mites.

Demodex in a 3 year old dog is a concern, as demodex typically is associated with an undeveloped immune system. That you have it in a 3 year old may indicate an undiagnosed underlying condition such as hypothyroid.

The sores on the vulva sound like yeast complications - wiping with Ted's anti-fungal/anti-staph will help, or straight Milk of Magnesia or Apple Cider Vinegar. You may wish to alkalize your dog's drinking water - to combat the yeast internally - by giving 1 teaspoon of baking soda into 1 liter of water; this is a crisis dose to be given for 5 days and then drop down to one half or one quarter teaspoon to one liter of water.

She's actually about 7 1/2 y/o - was about 4 when we got her (riddled with demodex, with a strong kind of salami smell which she no longer has). I have had thyroid test, but only the basic one, not the one recommended by Jean Dodds (UK vet unaware of it) - test was pretty normal. But she does show quite a few of the signs e.g sensitive to temperature, dry coat shedding all the time (and the dry eye...).

After going to a vet, paying him a lot of money and having my pup's condition made worse as a result, I decided to try Ted's Remedy. I had found it on lots of sites with lots of great reviews. Needless to say, I got rather excited! I went out, got the hydrogen peroxide and borax, then set to work. I followed the instructions to the letter; correct measurements, washed her first then soaked her in the mixture and left it to dry. After the first application my pup's mange seemed to worsen which I thought was a good sign as I'd read about a 'healing crisis' when the mites started to die off. We cleaned EVERYTHING with borax and vinegar, even the floors.

The next week we repeated, then the next, and the next. After about four applications we could see no physical difference, except now our pup was lying around and seemed miserable. She had begun scratching (demodectic mange shouldn't itch so this was a sign of a secondary infection). I decided it was time to visit another vet.

The new vet did a skin scraping and found it was definitely mange but that my pup now also had a bacterial AND a yeast infection - no wonder the poor thing was so unhappy! She was started on antibiotics but, by this stage, I had read so many bad things about invermectin and other mange treatments that I wanted to stick with Ted's Remedy a while longer. As soon as the antibiotics were finished my pup was scratching once more. One night I came home to find her entire muzzle raw and bleeding. After sitting on the floor with her with tears running down my face, I realised it was time to give up on Ted's Remedy.

Long story short (too late! ) she has now had one and a half shots of an invermectin-type treatment (sorry, can't remember the name) and already her skin has improved by leaps and bounds. It is now a healthy light pink instead of dark pink to angry red. All the horrible mange bumps are gone, her skin is very smooth. She has stop scratching and her scabs have healed. But, best of all, she has had a sudden burst of energy! We always assumed she was just a quiet natured pup but, now that she feels better, her true energetic nature has come out!

I know lots of people are keen to use natural remedies whenever possible (my entire skin care range is now made up of homemade, coconut oil-based products) but, when dealing with something that can become a serious danger to health, it really pays to seek professional help. If you're disappointed with one professional, as we were, seek a second opinion. If we had done that a couple of months earlier our pup would have been saved weeks of unnecessary suffering. Sorry Ted, this just wasn't for us!

Unfortunately, after paying a sum at one vet, for many people there is a dearth of funds. This is where research on EC is so valuable. Ted's remedy has great acclaim as is does work but when there is a secondary infection and the vet has not been forthcoming with help, Ted again has the secondary, bacterial, staph infection remedy which is easy to prepare and to find online at EC.

Ivermectin, according to natural doctors, is a cancer causing substance. Some people use it also for deworming but I have myself experienced at a shelter, that it doesn't work.

Theresa, one of our frequent contributors, has time and again given out the formula, saving much time in research for others. It just takes time researching which again saves $$. Good luck with your charge. Namaste, Om

Between our many vet visits, treatments and diet changes to boost our pup's immune system, those pesky mites have cost us a fortune! But our little furball is worth it :)

I love this site and will definitely be checking out the secondary infection treatment, thanks!

When treating mange it will often look worse once you start treating before it looks better.

Reason being, when you treat you are causing a rapid die off of the mites. The mites die deep in the hair follicle and decompose. It is the decomposing mite bodies that some dogs react to so even though the mites are not biting any more, it looks worse as your dog's skin works on a cell level to remove the decomposing mites.

Three dips in one week is enough for now; you could try soothing bathes with a lavender and oatmeal based shampoo [you could make this at home, google for recipe ideas] and you could also try Dr. Bronner's soaps - use the lavender one.

You should also consider supporting your dog's immune system with additional vitamin C, and try a weeks worth of Goldenseal, and also 2 weeks worth of Echinacea. So dose all three each meal, and monitor your results. Immune compromised animals often benefit from probiotics; you can do yogurt, but a better way would be RAW sauerkraut, either bought from the refrigerator section or made at home - 1 tbsp. each feeding.

Try to keep your pup in as stress free an environment as possible. With puppies this might be impossible, but whatever you can do to remove stress helps.

If you don't see a marked improvement in 3-5 days, if crazy itching develops, you may be dealing with a secondary skin infection and likely should see the vet.

Please report back!

Thanks so much, Ramelle

I've used plenty of this remedy but have never tried to store it. My **guess** is that the solution is active as long as the hydrogen peroxide is active - so perhaps 24 - 48 hours in a securely sealed container.

Will keep you posted with their progress.

Now to the question: Can I take them to the lake and let them play? They LOVE the water and seem a little stressed because they are now confined instead of running free. My concern is, will it make it spread even more, or set us back in treatment if I let them run around or get in the water.

From what you shared it appears your dogs have sarcoptic mange. The life cycle of the mite is 4 weeks; you might want to dip twice a week for the first 4 weeks just to be sure to catch any newly hatched mites and continue dipping once per week for another month or so after.

I see no problem taking them to the lake- sun and exercise are healing, but for sure bathe and dip them afterwards - to clean off any allergens, and to prevent another outbreak /catching it again.

The life spam of a demodex mite is 18-24 days. What this means is that you should continue to dip your dog for another 4 weeks after everything looks cured - so generally for 12 weeks. If you see good results you can go to just 1 dip per week. When you use the borax/hydrogen peroxide, the hydrogen peroxide acts as a penetrant to deliver the borax into the hair follicles; the borax is the miticide and its the borax that kills the mites. When the mites die, they stay right where they are in the hair follicle and dissolve; it is the decaying mites that can cause irritation. You may find that the appearance of the skin worsens before it gets better. You may find it helpful to make up a gallon batch of the remedy and simply stand your dog in a wash tub for 10 minutes to better treat the feet, as pododemidicosis can be very stubborn. Just be sure to follow the directions to a T - enough borax to the point it no longer dissolves and no rinsing or drying - let her air dry without any bedding in her crate for half an hour before allowing her out to shake off the excess and finish air drying.

You can address the flaky skin a few ways. Topical application of coconut oil with a few drops of essential oil of lavender; orally dosing with Oil of Primrose - 1 capsule am and pm; and you can also dose the coconut oil or other such oil such as salmon oil in the chow am and pm - one half teaspoon.

The pustules sound like a secondary staph infection - you might consider Ted's Anti-fungal/Anti-staph solution for one of your twice weekly dips.

Anti fungal/staph skin solution - you will need:

Milk of Magnesia [magnesium hydroxide]
Epsom salts [magnesium sulfate]
Borax [sodium tetraborate]
1% hydrogen peroxide solution

Mix 1 tbsp of MOM with 1 tbsp epsom salt and 1 tbsp borax into 1-1/2 cups of 1% hydrogen peroxide. Apply and do not rinse. This solution should knock out any staph infection or yeast infection going on in the skin.

Additionally the addition of 1 teaspoon of baking soda in one half liter of drinking water [this is a crisis dose] may also help and will calm problem skin in a matter of hours. Once the skin is under control, for long term maintenance use 1/2 tsp of baking soda per liter of water. If the 1 teaspoon of baking soda into one half liter of water tastes too strange for your dog, try diluting it to 1 teaspoon to three liters of water for the first day, then increase to one and one half teaspoon into three liters on the second day and so on. The crisis dose should be given 5-7 days before going on to the maintenance dose.

I will try the other formula even tho she is on antibiotics but this is the third antibiotic she has been on and this one doesn't seem to be working either.

Sounds like you have a really, really smart puppy on your hands! My BIL's dog would not eat out of a bowl for years and years - only ate if the food was on the carpet! Needless to say, he shampooed the carpet frequently!

Why is your dog drinking formula?

If you are feeding soft, canned or wet food water consumption will go down. I would try to get your dog to drink the baking soda water 3 x day - use a 10+ ml syringe if you have it and just tip her head back, put the nozzle of the syringe in the corner of her mouth and slowly depress the plunger. Some will drip out, but she will be swallowing some as well. You might also consider using a hanging water bottle - Lixit makes one for small dogs - and hang that in her kennel filled with plain water; she might surprise you by taking to it without any instruction!

Namaste, Om

The immune system is GOD given and logic says to kill every bacteria, good or bad, cannot be holistic. I lost some rescue cats that way when I was not enlightened enough.

I would get off the antibiotic - they are anti life and give pre and probiotics daily to boost the immune system. Just prescribing antibiotics freely and leave it at that is tantamount to "I do not know how to deal or heal". Next one, please.

Health is a business, think about it and take charge, doing research on EC or wherever you find inspiration.

By now antibiotics and pharma meds are found in all the water ways, causing new diseases. The planet is polluted by them.

I hope you understand. Namaste, Om

Thanks for the background info! What breed is your dog - is she a tiny toy breed?

If this were my dog I would change a few things. I would hang the doggy water bottle or a few of them around at her level so she can encounter them in her environment and get used to seeing them. Then I would spice them up by putting attractive toys on top of them so she is drawn to them for the toy alone. And most important, don't pay any attention to the or her checking them out - turn your back and ignore! I would also provide a few interactive treat balls that you can fill with cubed cheese, vitamin treats or kibble. These toys will engage her brain and nose and give her an activity that doesn't require your hand for her to eat.

I would also give her a nearly raw, meaty bone. Depending on her size a chicken thigh bone would work, or pork chop bone, pork rib bone, or T-bone steak bone. If she is a larger breed then I prefer beef rib bones. I make these by baking the rack of ribs at 350 for half an hour; this leaves the bone raw in the center, the meat rare and the outside is browned up and flavorful. Given her 'shark mouth' working on the bone [trim most but not all of the meat off] may loosen retained teeth while she flosses and tones up her gums - and also the protein in the meat won't hurt either!

Not Om, but since I am online, ACV is apple cider vinegar. The therapeutic stuff is raw, unfiltered, organic, and contains live cultures, ie 'with the mother'.

Probiotics are the beneficial bacteria that normally populate a healthy gut. Three rounds of antibiotics has decimated your dog's healthy internal flora, so you need to introduce new bacteria to repopulate her gut. There are special pet products you can buy - certain strains of acidophilus, but I find it is easiest to just go to the refrigerated section at the health food store and but what is on sale! And then rotate the brands so that you provide a variety of strains of bacteria. If nothing else a trip to the drug store for 'Shiff's Digestive Advantage' would be a start. Sprinkle on the wet food when you feed it - but wait adding it to her meals until she is off the antibiotic she is on.

I will cook a chicken thigh tomorrow and give her the bone - she likes lamb ears to chew on and she has lots of toys she chews. I think she actually lost a tooth yesterday so I am hoping that all those teeth are puppy teeth and she will lose them eventually, that is what the Vet thinks also. Since she is so far behind for her age maybe she is finally "catching up".

She is so much more active since I started the Mange treatment, I am thinking she is finally starting to feel better. That other person told me to do the ACV treatment but I am going to wait on that for a while if I do both the treatments (the ACV and the one for her pustules) I won't know what one worked. Besides she is really not "flaky" you have to either brush her or use your fingernail so scrap them loose. That's why I though maybe it was the dead mange coming off. The ones that come out are long, thin pieces and my fingers and the brush feels oily. If I had a microscope I would bet they were the dead mange. It doesn't look like a "dandruff" type flake.

I don't know what you are scraping off with your nails but it isn't dead demodex mites; I wonder if your vet could check them out? Scrape some out and drop them off for the vet to look at under the microscope - I'd be curious to know. Oily is usually seborrhea.

If Josie is super playful - what mini-pin isn't? - then lot's of tug-o-war is in order. A simple rag or old sock and you are set. You can also teach 'take it' and 'drop it' while you work those teeth loose!

Another thought on the water bowl would be a cookie sheet. The challenge would be to find gradually smaller and smaller sheets, and then to increase the depth of the sheets gradually until you go from jelly roll to brownie pan.

The yogurt is the right idea, but IMHO you pack more bang for the buck going straight for the encapsulated form of probiotic/acidophilus.

We do play tug of war with a sock and ropes. I use a small very swallow bowl now for the formula, which she will drink but if I put water in that bowl she still won't touch it. She smells it then walks away never to return....

IMHO = In My Honest/Humble Opinion....

This is her neck area today - notice ears are healed and eyes are open - less white around them and the cheeks have gotten better but the whitish stuff is still there.

I can't seem to get a good picture of the spots on her back - they were pussy, bloody pimple type spots and then the hair was gone on those spots, doesn't seem to be growing back in either.

Sounds like your min-pin has seborrhea:

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-seborrhea

Your dog's case could be considered 'secondary seborrhea' because it appears in connection with the demodex.

The bloody pustules on the back could be allergies or could be staph. If the scabs are healing over, I would give it time for the hair to come back.

I would certainly continue with the baking soda water as alkalizing often helps overcome some allergy symptoms.

I would offer the raw/rare beef rib bones for the shark mouth; chicken thigh bones are good for the molars, but for pulling out retained shark teeth you need sinew and cartilage, so give a beef bone or T bone if you can.

I think the itching with the collar is normal; I would make sure the collar is smooth on the inside, so there is no irritation caused by the collar. Do keep in mind that any attention you pay to her when she scratches only serves to reinforce the behavior, so ignore her when she has the collar on - she may quit the behavior in a few days if you simply ignore it. Can't hurt to try!

And I think you may be dealing with secondary seborrhea - I posted on it below.

Hope this helps.

Namaste, Om

Please read up on seborrhea in dogs:

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-seborrhea

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/integumentary_system/seborrhea/overview_of_seborrhea.html

You mention bathing your dog in medicated shampoo; depending on the shampoo, you may already be doing what is needed to treat the seborrhea. If this were my dog I might continue with the anti-staph dips for another couple of weeks just to ensure the skin is truly clear from any staph or yeast infection.

The beef ribs don't sell as well as the pork ribs, so most grocery stores do not regularly carry them, but most stores are able to place special orders with their suppliers - or you might just cut to the chase and see if Pingels on Main Street carries them.

I have been using de-ionised water instead but am yet to see any improvement in my dogs skin after 6 dips, thanks.

My experience with using Ted's Mange Remedy is that if after 6 dips - and I use filtered tap water to mix mine up - if you aren't seeing any progress you are not dealing with mange.

What symptoms, exactly, are you seeing in your dog?

His paws are balding red and flakey, his chest is balding red and warm to the touch and he has some boils around his muzzle but there is no itching or discomfort whatsoever - exactly the same symptoms as last time. I've also dealt with sarcoptic mange before so know it's definitely not that.

I just wanted to avoid sedating him for more skin scrapings at the vet and using the toxic dip again which will only suppress his immunity further. This seemed to be the perfect solution (which I still believe it is reading through the comments) when executed correctly.

I think I did read among the comments here that if you don't use distilled water the minerals in normal water will 'override' either the H202 or the borax, so to speak.

It's not that bad at the moment so I have time on my side before heading back to the vets, perhaps I should start again using only distilled, or filtered water?

Lastly, I was adding between 5-10 tablespoons of borax to the solution which seemed a fair amount, should that be enough? Thanks in advance...

I think your problem might be the ratio - it sounds off to me.

This is what I do. I buy the hydrogen peroxide from the grocery store- it comes in a brown bottle, it is 16 oz, and it is a 3% strength. I get the borax from the laundry aisle - it should be plain with NO scent [not sure if they make a scented but just in case, you want the plain]. I usually have a gallon jug to mix in. I pour the hydrogen peroxide into the jug and I refill the hydrogen peroxide bottle with water twice [so add 32 ounces of water] and empty into the jug. You now have 48 ounces of a 1% hydrogen peroxide solution. To this I then add 1 heaping cup of borax. You should see unmelted crystals of borax in the mix. If you do NOT see undissolved borax crystals in the jug then you are not using enough borax. So add the heaping cup of borax and MORE so the crystals stop dissolving; this is what is called a 'saturated' solution - and is the strength required for best results.

I usually fill tub with warm water and set the jug in the warm water, and then I bathe my dog normally with no special shampoo; I rinse well, and then pull the plug and let the tub drain. I use my hands to 'squeegee' my dog's coat to get as much water as I can out of the coat. Once the dog is hand dry and the tub empty, I plug the stopper in and then pour the now nice and warm jug of borax solution over the dog. I keep a plastic cup handy and use that to scoop up solution from the bottom of the tub to pour back onto the dog. I have a wash cloth that I use to sop up the solution so I can get the head and ears saturated with solution as well. Keep the dog in the tub for at least 10 minutes - the longer the better, 30 minutes is ideal IMHO. Keep pouring the solution over and over. After 10-30 minutes I put the soaking wet dog into a crate with no bedding and let the dog air dry for half an hour. During this time the wet solution is still working. Turn up the heat, cover the crate with a blanket - do what you can to make your dog comfy while you wait out the next half an hour. After that I allow the dog out to fully air dry and may rub down with a towel to work off the undissolved borax crystals.

If your dog is as bad as you say, I would use this stronger solution every other day for three dips and see if you see any improvement. When I did this my own dog felt better immediately - she got the puppy zoomies all over the house! Her spots of demodex appeared to get worse - that happens because the mites are having a massive die off - but then got better with each dip. I did three dips the first week, and then once a week after that for a total of 12 weeks. I continued dipping even after she looked 100%, this just to be sure I got all the mites as this is what the directions for the Mitaban say.

I agree - Mitaban can really jack your dog's immune system. You might also consider Pet Tabs or vitamin C to boost the immune system during this time. Echinacea boosted with C is also something to consider. I find these products not at a pet store but in the human health food stores or vitamin shops.

Finally, it would not hurt to alkalize your dog's system by adding baking soda to her filtered tap water. I start off with 1 teaspoon per 3 liters of water and then increase over 3 days to 1 teaspoon to 1 liter of water and give that for 5 days - and then cut down to one half teaspoon of baking soda per liter of water as a maintenance dose during the run of the mange treatment.

Try the correct ration/stronger solution and report back. I would not be surprise if secondary staph infection were present, and Ted has a remedy for that too.

The borax is a miticide, and hydrogen peroxide acts as a penetrant; using water with minerals shouldn't negate this process, however I would use filtered tap water as the chlorine may have an undesired influence to the mix - JMHO!

I have only been formulating 1.5 litres in total so the 5-10 tablespoons was actually quite a lot and there was definitely plenty of undissolved borax crystals left at the bottom, even of the dog after bathing!

I guess I'll just keep trying, I'll up the borax level and try and keep him in the bath a little longer, although I'm pretty thorough as it is as I'm a professional cleaner!

Secondary infection thankfully hasn't set in yet, it did last time so I know what to look for!

And yes, I've got him on a powdered vit & mineral supplement as well as an omega 3 salmon oil supplement to try and boost immunity, next is trying 'Origin' grain free feed. It's all rather frustrating!

What kind of dog do you have, and how old? I have 25 lb frenchies and I can't seem to get out of making at least a gallon of the dip at a time.

In chronic cases of demodex there is often another disease component at play - does your dog have any other issues?

And Orijen may or may not be your magic ticket - I know when I fed it my dogs lost condition, got poor coats. We currently feed Fromm and switch around the various grain free diets they offer.

Do consider adding the baking soda to the water. Also consider a topical application of essential oil of lavender; dilute with a carrier oil such as olive oil or coconut oil - just a few drops will go a long way; you might also try a few drops in a rinse after a bath. Lavender is calming for the skin and some folks with demodex dogs have good success with it.

He's a rescue dog and the demodex first showed itself 6 months after rehoming. I understand it can indicate deeper issues but it can also take hold if the dog has been stressed, I.e rehomed, vaccinated, neutered and microchipped all in a short period of time, not to mention perhaps being fed an incorrect diet!

It doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest and he's perfectly healthy and happy in every other respect, which is why I was hoping this would work!

I definitely think diet is a considerable contributory factor as despite being built like tanks, they're very sensitive dogs!

I'm also going to switch to the apple cider vinegar as the H202 is bleaching his dark coat so much so people are commenting!

I have never used the formula with vinegar instead of hydrogen peroxide, so I cannot comment on efficacy. I would think, after using vinegar myself to rinse a dog after a shampoo to neutralize any soap residue, that if there are any abrasions on the skin that it would sting; I know the remedy using the hydrogen peroxide does not sting my cuts when I am dipping a dog. IMHO a bleached brindle coat is a small price to pay for a cure - again JMHO.

I find it very odd that a 3 year old BT is breaking with demodex; again this is a sign that the immune system has experienced a major stress - however it might be a good idea to run blood panels to see if there is something else going on [and you mentioned your vet is waiting for test results so I assume this is what you are doing- looking deeper].

Do keep us posted!

He hasn't had any blood tests as of yet, I know that's what the vets will want to do if I take him back. To be fair, he was never mite free in the first place, as I stopped the mitaban dips after the second skin scraping revealed a reduction in mite count from seven live adult to one dead nymph. Looking back now, I should have continued until we had the two consecutive negative scrapings needed to report a 'cure'.

Since the cessation of the mitaban dips 6 months ago I think the small remainder of mites we missed have slowly proliferated to bring him back to the same stage today.

Again, I strongly believe this is to do with a grain based diet and so want to give him some time on a decent grain free feed before paying for expensive and perhaps unnecessary tests.

I'm going to give him another course of full saturation, twice weekly borax treatments over 3-4 weeks to run the life cycle of the mite and if theres no improvement I'll take him back, although another diagnosis of demodex with no underlying issues will be rather frustrating considering the huge amount of positive results with Ted's treatment posted here!

Demodex occurring in a three year old adult due to a grain based diet is pretty unusual. Sure, under stress such as rehoming - in a young puppy - is fairly coming, but three years old = look for something like hypothyroid - JMHO.

IMHO rather than doing twice the amount of dips of 3-4 weeks, you might consider dipping twice/three times the first week, and then weekly for a total of 12 weeks; this nails down the fully life cycle of the mites. If the feet are particularly affected, ie pododemidecosis - you might have him stand two feet or even one foot at a time in a small, deep pan for half an hour at a shot; this might help to resolve his poor feet a tad sooner.

Also consider alkalizing by adding the baking soda to his water - it can't hurt, and it might be just what is needed to help your boy turn the tide on the mites.

Do keep us posted on your results!

Not sure if mange and I'm just don't have the budget to see the vet. I called him as we are regular clients and it will cost over a 100 just to run the tests on her.

My feeling from what you described is NOT mange - more like systemic yeast infection.

Couple things you can do. Bathe your dog - daily for the first week if need be - in Ted's Anti-fungal/Anti-staph remedy.

Also add one eighth to one quarter teaspoon of Borax to one liter of your dog's regular drinking water. If your dog tolerates this well you could consider adding the same amount of Epsom salt along with the Borax; I would do this for 5-7 days, and then reduce to the Borax only in the smallest amount. You can also try baking soda - one teaspoon to one liter of water and this as your dog's only drinking water for 5-7 days, and then you can reduce to one half teaspoon per liter as a maintenance dose.

Lastly, look at what you are feeding your dog - read the ingredient panel on the food bag. If the first 10 ingredients are corn/grain or plant based, then the diet could be a huge factor in your dog's systemic yeast infection. Consider a RAW or homemade diet [google for recipies] or looking for an upgrade to the kibble you are feeding -try searching out diets at dogfoodadvisor.com.

Try this and report back!

P. S. I would strongly advise buying a cone, you don't want them licking that stuff off.

The cone is not needed - it is OK for your dog to lick the solution, however it is most effective when left to air dry.

In addition to the baths, you could also try alkalizing his drinking water by adding one half a teaspoon of baking soda to 1 liter of water and have that be his only drinking water.

I followed the instructions precisely, and today, her pinkish skin on her chest area is dark red. Is this normal? I also see that there are a lot of flakey matter on her coat. Please advise.

Thanks, Andy

You don't say how many treatments your puppy has had- was it just one treatment so far? Remember that you need to treat for at least 10-12 weeks, and I usually start out by dipping every other day for three treatments the first week, and then weekly there after for 10 to 12 weeks - so continue treatment for another 3-4 weeks even though everything looks resolved and normal skin.

In my experience the dark red is typical - there is a reason why demodex is commonly referred to as "red mange" - and you are seeing it.

The flakey skin has not been my experience using Ted's mange remedy - and I have used it bunches. There may be other issues going on. What breed of dog is your puppy and what diet are you feeding?

Thanks!

When I first started I did the treatment once a week. There are times that missed. Last week I have stepped up to treating the dog once every two days and the dog appears to be getting worst.

What I am seeing visibly and extracting of the dog especially at the base follicles is what appears to be a waxy texture which actually adheres to the surface of the bathtub. It literally sticks to the tub and I usually have to use a hard spray or use my fingernails to scrape this waxy substance out. When I feel this on the dog, it feels like a scab with many follicles all clumped together. When I pull it out, obviously the skin breaks and there is slight bleeding. The problem here is that the hydrogen peroxide clots the blood and leaves a scar.

The dog has a sort of whitish semi-circle around itâ€TMs eyes and the waxy substance is most prevalent.

I have not taken the dog to the vet as yet but am planning to do so this week.

From what I have written, would this be demodex? Jumbieman

What you describe does NOT sound like demodex at all, particularly as it has not responded to treatment over three months.

The waxy secretions are more in line with Seborrhea. Do yes see your vet for a definitive diagnoses and report back what you find please.

Took the dog to the vet today. Dog temperature was high normal. On examination was was found to have infected eyes and ears. Lymph nodes were swollen and vet assured that it was not cancer related. Did not want to commit himself to a diagnosis until he cultured some samples.

He took various samples including skin scrapings and some other samples which are being sent to the laboratory. He also took some samples for demodex which he was able to process in his office.

The sample for demodex came back positive.

He prescribed medication for demodex - Ivermectin different dosages every day.

For the other infections Zeniquin, Maxitrol, and Otomax.

He indicated to me that the dog's immune system is completely out of quack and wants to wait for results of the samples he took. Since this is a long holiday weekend, he would not get back the results for another 10 days in which I have a follow-up visit.

In the meantime, I will try to help the dog's immune system by using turmeric, garlic and wild fish liver oil.

I will keep you all apprised.

Thanks for all of your concerns. J

Please let us know of test results - very interested to know why the demodex is so resistant in your dog.