Grover's Disease Triggers
★★★★★
My question is if anyone has zero'd in on an ingestible irritant...?
Grover's Disease Triggers
★★★★★
I've been horrified to watch it spread before my eyes. I quit the UVA therapy as soon as I realized what was happening; however! I have since read that UVA therapy initially makes the Grover's worse--then makes it better. I've asked my dermatologist to research that.
To those who are going in the sun: STOP sweating! It's dumb!
As for Cilantro, I bought the oil on Amazon because a support group I belong to is experimenting with it and looking for feedback. I've been taking 5 drops a day in water for about 2 months. I can't see any change, other than the spreading of the disease. My derm prescribes both Clobetasol and Eucrisa, which I alternate daily. He just added hydroxyzine. I also use a moisturizing cream that contains both menthol and camphor. So, I'm kind of taking a shotgun approach to this but it's out of desperation.
What's new about the appearance of the Grover's is that I'm developing purpura--the purple hematomas (for lack of a better description) all over my chest, breasts, arms and I suppose my legs will be next. I've seen nothing in print that links Grover's to stress--but I'm here to tell you I believe stress is a major trigger for me. I'm under tremendous stress, facing open spine surgery soon, and my derm told me he now agrees with me. We believe stress and the frequent x-rays have a lot to do with my progressing flares.
The only drug I had a GREAT response to but don't take more of because of its negative effects is PREDNISONE. I took it for 15 days and had a dramatic clearing of the Grover's--but I've had a terrible progression of the disease since then (this past summer).
I wish that more clinicians and researchers would take up the cause and find more effective treatments for us sufferers of Grover's. Until then, keep sharing.
(California)
05/28/2022
Hi, I was recently diagnosed with GD. My body runs hot. I did acupuncture for infertility and took my temp daily. My acu dr noticed my core temp was always higher than normal. I started taking herbs to cool the blood. It worked back then for getting pregnant. I am back to acupuncture now and once again am starting the herbs to help cool my blood. I also started birth control again to help level out my hormone fluctuations as many of my outbreaks were right before my period started. My body temp changed then too. Now I am seeing a major difference in the severity of the outbreaks becoming less and less. I would suggest seeing an acupuncturist and discussing this possibility. My derm said it was a great idea as Western medicine really didn't have a cure for GD yet since it is based on body temp.
(NV)
05/31/2023
(CA)
11/28/2023
(Seattle)
12/01/2023
Hello Jessica,
There are several causes for "true" cherry angiomas however, the most probable cause is Bromine toxicity. Bromine, like Floride and Chlorine are toxic halogens. You can be tested for bromide toxicity with a simple urine sample (e.g., Hakala Labs). Can read up about Bromism (bromine poisoning).
There is a page on EarthCinic to check out - Bromine Link to Cherry Angioma.
Other causes for cherry angiomas include: other chemical exposures - e.g, topical nitrogen and sulfur mustards, butoxyethanol; intravascular large B-cell lymphoma (IVLBCL); other toxic agents.
Also, it is associated with excess estrogen which is related to liver dysfunction, excess copper, vitamin C deficiency, Iodine deficiency and aging.
There are other conditions that have a very similar appearance, for example:
1. Bacillary angiomatosis - (bright red lumps) caused by various Bartonella species (e.g., merckmanuals.com). These lesions are sometimes called cherry angiomas. This is a common Lyme co-infection.
2. Grover's disease - itchy red bumps, slightly raised, water blisters can occur alongside or inside them.
Bromine: research conducted by Drs. A. D. Cohena, E. Cagnanob, and D. A. Vardya, shows the correlation between bromine poisoning and cherry angiomas - "Mysterious red moles appeared on researchers' bodies after working for extended periods of time with brominated compounds."
Bromine poisoning is a toxic halogen (Bromism). It is a known disruptor which prevents the absorption of iodine in the body. Bromine builds up in the body and replaces all the iodine on the cell's iodine receptors. Eventually, there is excess and the body stores it in the skin/fat tissues causing these lesions.
Due to chronic toxicity and carcinogenicity, the US Food and Drug Administration banned bromide salts from over-the-counter products in 1975 and all sleep products in 1989. There are no FDA-approved uses for bromide, and it is no longer available in over-the-counter sedatives (however, some drugs today contain bromides?). Therapeutic bromide levels are measured in European countries like Germany, where bromide is still used therapeutically in human epilepsy.
"Bromism was once a very common disorder, being responsible for 5 to 10% of psychiatric hospital admissions, but is now uncommon since bromide was withdrawn from clinical use in many countries and was severely restricted in others." en.wikipedia.org
Bromine toxicity can be caused by: industrial exposure at work; sodas & foods which contain brominated vegetable oil (e.g., Colas); brominated flours ("enriched flour") and baked goods; medications (e.g., Citalopram Hydrobromide (aka Celexa) which is Citalopram bound to bromide; ipratropium bromide for asthma; cyclosporine for psoriasis, some anti-cancer drugs, etc...); Sodium bromate is added to hair permanents and dyes; some cosmetics; Methyl Bromide is an agricultural pesticide used on fruit, especially on California-grown strawberries; bromide based cleaners for pools and spas; PBDEs (bromide compounds) are used heavily as flame retardants in new furniture, children's clothing, bedding, cars; and, Bromide ions have been detected in some bottled drinking water and water filtration systems.
I knew a doctor whose son developed psychosis and cherry angiomas from drinking several Mountain Dew Liters, daily, for quite a while! He was admitted to the ER.
Treatment
The only way to flush Bromide out of the body is using a high quality iodine source. iodine rids the body of bromine, other toxic halides, some heavy metals and other toxins. Including a safe source of sea salt is also used along with the iodine.
Example of a toxic halide detox protocol: (See Dr David Brownstein's books)
Iodine - work up to 25-50 mg/day slowly, stay at this level for 3-12 months then reduce to maintenance dose of 12.5 mg/day - CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR FIRST.
Note: Bladderwrack or another high iodine seaweed contains the best form of bioavailable organic iodine so it is best to include this as part of the iodine intake. Some good brands: Iodoral, Lugol's by compounding pharmacist or make your own (see Dr Hulda Clark's books), Global Healing Detoxadine, etc..).
Celtic Sea Salt: 10 grams daily, check with doctor first; NOTE: intake of iodine should be preceded by a salt loading protocol and/or sulfur supplementation (see Dr Brownstein's protocol). The chloride in salt helps the kidneys detoxify bromide.
Magnesium: 500 - 1000 mg/day; baths, topical gel, ionic liquid oral. Good forms - Mg citrate, Mg glycerinate, chelated Mg by Solgar, etc.. Ionic liquid form is most bioavailable and topical. Mg chloride is more effective.
Epsom Salt Baths: x2/week, 2 cups in bath
Note: magnesium baths and excessive Mg supplementation is contraindicated in CCSVI - Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency.
Vitamin C: 10 grams daily, divided doses. Taking it on the higher end is needed to detox Bromine. Maintenance dose is 3 g/day.
Vitamins B2: 100 mg, x3/day
Vitamin B3: 500 mg, x2/day
Selenium: 200 mcg/day
Zinc: standard dose
Zeolite: use high quality, x2/day; there are quality German brands and others, only use the powdered form.
A comprehensive vitamin/mineral, Essential Fatty Acid (omega 3s) & nutrition program
Note: some also apply iodine and/or magnesium topically in various ways to detox bromide:
* Ancient Mineral oil of magnesium applied to the area
* Pascalite clay applied to the area
* Epsom salts or Celtic sea salts with hydrogen peroxide applied to the area
Sources to explore:
"Salt Your Way to Health" - Dr David Brownstein
The Iodine Group Website
"Iodine - Why You Need It - Why You Can't Live Without It", Dr David Brownstein
https://www.iodine-resource.com
"The Iodine Crisis", Lynne Farrow
www.breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedominancetheory.html
(Seattle)
12/01/2023
Hello,
A few more points to include re: Cherry Angiomas, Bromide & Iodine:
CHERRY ANGIOMA CAUSES: additional causes for cherry angiomas:
1. Aspartame poisoning
2. Detoxing too intensely during a halogen/bromide detox protocol which overloads the body's detoxification pathways. Often, symptoms worsen temporarily before they improve.
To minimize/eliminate detox reactions: increase iodine co-factors, zeolite, fluid intake, kidney support; balance the body's pH, add a complete nutritional program (vitamins & minerals).
The best way to minimize bromine/toxic halogen detox reactions is to ensure adequate use of sea salt, Magnesium chloride supplementation and Vitamin C. Sometimes, one needs to take a 48 hour break from iodine supplementation or lower the Iodine dose and slowly work back up to higher dose.
If severe detox reactions: flush the kidneys of toxins do a SALT FLUSH: in addition to the daily intake of 1/2 tsp Celtic sea salt, drink dissolved 1/2 tsp of Celtic sea salt in warm water followed by 12-16 ounces of pure water, repeat this every 45 minutes until copious urination occurs. Repeat each day up to 3 days only to clear detox symptoms. Other salts that can be used: Himalayan Pink Salt, Hawaiian Black Salt, Celtic Gray Salt, ....
Can put a little Lugol's tincture on "Bromine Detox Zits" or cherry angiomas at night and they disappear if caught early.
Some symptoms of the body dumping/detoxing bromine include: increased body odor, cloudy urine, skin eruptions/acne, fatigue, fever, diarrhea, bloat, headache, depression/anxiety, brain fog, muscle aches, .... The odor lasts 1-2 weeks though the cloudy urine may take several months to clear. These detox reactions to iodine occur about 5% of the time.
Some people require up to 2 years of iodine therapy to bring bromide levels down if sodium chloride (sea salt) is not included in the bromine detox program.
IODINE
IODINE FORM TO USE: use a combination of iodine and iodide (i.e., Lugol's = 5% iodine + 10% iodide in water; tincture or capsule). This is important because different endocrine organs & tissues take up different forms of iodine. Example, the breasts and prostate concentrate iodine whereas the thyroid gland and the skin primarily concentrate iodide. Other tissues, including the liver, spleen, kidneys, blood, salivary glands and intestines concentrate either form.
THYROID MEDS - do not take thyroid preparations unless the iodine deficiency has been addressed because it will cause a worse iodine deficiency.
ALLERGY - before using iodine, test for an allergic reaction by doing a skin patch test: apply a small amount of Lugol's to a patch of skin for a reaction (hives, itching, rash). If allergic, take Edgar Cayce's Atomodine tincture, a detoxified form of iodine. Also, most people allergic to iodine are not allergic to iodide.
BROMINE
B intake accelerates iodine deficiency and prevents iodine from binding to its own receptors thus increasing the risk of all thyroid disorders and some cancers since thyroid tissue structure and hormone production requires iodine!
Bromine is a potent inhibitor of thyroid hormone production. And, iodine deficiency accelerates bromide toxicity.
Bromine is considered a potent goitrogen which is a chemical that causes a goiter in the thyroid gland.
Bromine is very slowly eliminated from the body. It binds tightly to the iodine receptors in the body's cells (which are concentrated in the endocrine glands). Also, bromine can bind to the iodine transport cells and damage them! And, the oxidized form of bromide- bromine- is stored in the fat tissues.
Increasing Iodide intake lowers bromide levels in these organs and the SKIN and detoxifies the entire body.
Bromine toxicity (bromism) can be present even with low levels of bromide in the diet.
A low-salt diet exacerbates bromine toxicity.
Bromine toxicity can cause loss of hearing and vegetative lesions on the scalp and face.
More sources of bromine intake:
Carbonated drinks: Mountain Dew, AMP Energy Drink, some Gatorade products, colas, Code Red, Dr. Pepper, HC, Sun Drop, Fanta, Minute Maid Lemonade, Citrus Gatorade, citrus flavored drinks, etc..
Used in computers and automobiles
Used as a preservative in nuts and oils
Used as a fumigant for termites
Medications: Atrovent Inhaler, Atrovent Nasal Spray, Ipratropium Nasal Spray, Pro-Panthine, Pyridostigmine bromide, Spiriva Handihaler, Prozac, Paxil, some meds for bowel and bladder dysfunction, anticonvulsants, some sedatives, plastic products, infant cough syrup, toothpaste and many other prescription drugs.
Sprays on fruits and vegetables.
Cleaners
Potassium Bromate (PB) - PB is still listed as a "safe food additive" by the FDA despite being banned in Europe, the UK, China, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Peru, Brazil and Canada. The CDC lists bromine in the same class as PB, as a TOXIN. PB is used in most bread products in the US and they may disguise its presence with the label "enriched flour". An FDA's limited survey found high levels of bromate in rolls and buns.
AVOID all toxic halogens (chlorine, florine) especially bromine sources, "it is a toxic element and has no place for ingestion in man", Dr D Brownstein.
Sources:
"Iodine, Why You Need It, Why You Can't Live WIthout It", 3rd edition, David Brownstein, MD
"Healing With Iodine", Dr Mark Sircus
(Miami)
12/01/2023
I removed all cherry angiomas with a heated end of a needle. I insert it in a cork for convenience. Easy safe and fast.
Grover's Disease Triggers: Stress
★★★★★
Have been prescribed Triamcinolone Acetonide 1%, CeraVe cream, Doxepin, Zyrtec, and already take D3, chelated Zinc, Super Beets, Balance of Nature, and am a vegetarian (for over 40 years). Tried the cilantro drink for a week (awful, soapy). If anyone is trying the aforementioned treatments, they may be healthy, but not effective for my case. Already have a long list of meds, as was in a near-fatal car crash right before 9/11 & have had migraines since the age of 3.
My Grover is all over my trunk, legs, arms, neck & reaching to my face. only my hand and the soles of feet are clear. TY for listening, if you did. Hugs
James,
You may have missed this post from 3 weeks ago by EC community member Elena using high dose Vitamin A which may be of interest to you.
Art
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Posted by Elena (California) on 04/30/2022
I started taking 50, 000 IU daily for Grover's since this past Monday. As of today, my skin is almost cleared up!! Thank you to the contributors who shared that information! Just as a reminder take Vit D, 2000 IU more or less, because Vitamin A depletes Vit D.
I'm going to continue for another week, and then reassess whether I should continue on a decreased dosage of Vitamin A.
Best to All
Hibiclens
★★★★☆
Homeopathy
★★★★★
Yesterday I went to a homeopathic doctor She made up a spray for me. I'm no longer itching in less than 24 hours. I'll continue with it until my skin looks all clear. It's like a miracle. Find a homeopath near you and go. Insurance does not cover but it's well worth the miracle
Homeopathy - Natrum Muriaticum 30c
★★★★★
I know we are all so different so one cure may work for one but not the other but I have found Homeopathy for me has been my saviour. I have a bottle of Homeopathy Natrum Muriaticum 30c tablets with me at all times. I take the Chronic dose three times daily but if I have a flare up (from getting hot and thus sweating) I take the Acute dose (see bottle for full instructions)
I have found that Grovers flare-ups happen when I get hot and sweat forms on my skin and then dries, I feel a strange stingy feeling on my skin when sweat is drying and a flare-up is happening. I can still exercise and get hot etc but I always make sure I shower as soon as possible before the sweat dries on my skin. if I can't get to a shower and the sweat dries on my skin I will have a flare-up.
Ice is also a good way to catch a flare-up and stop it from going from a mild flare-up to a major one. if you catch a flare-up at the early stages it will be gone within hours or max a few days.
(Qld)
03/24/2023
Ice
★★★★☆
If you sweat and don't have a shower straightaway you will feel a slight crawling stingy feeling on the skin, this is a warning sign that your skin is going to break out.
I've found that you can exercise and get hot and sweat as much as you want but you must not let the sweat dry on your skin, wash it off as soon as you can.
Ice
★★★★★
(Florida Keys)
06/04/2016
★★★★★
I would dampen a wash cloth, put it in a plastic zip lock bag then the freezer. It was the only way to fall asleep.
Juicing, Coriander
★★★★★
Jackie
Kelp Paste, Hot Showers
★☆☆☆☆
(Tennessee, Usa)
12/30/2013
Dear Avvidor,
What have you tried other than kelp paste and hot showers? I noticed several things on the Earth Clinic page that have helped...Iododral and B-complex. I am wondering if you have tried these.
Carrot juice also comes to mind as something I would try. The high vitamin A is good for skin and it is a good detox for the body. But it can be an investment if you don't have a juicer or one you could borrow. Drinking a quart a day of carrot is doable, though you might start with less to make sure it doesn't bother you. (Like a cup a day and work up to a quart a day.) I have had a quart a day for a couple of weeks with no adverse affects.
Do keep us posted...I hope you are feeling better soon.
~Mama to Many~
(Somewhere, Europe)
12/30/2013
Avvidor, in my experience, the real Coconut Oil drastically reduces itching from any cause.
(Denver, Colorado)
12/30/2013
Avvidore: Watch raw food videos. The80/10/10ers have recovered from everything. You can also take the best all in one formula according to Mike Adams from natural news, a 30 herb blend, mostly wild harvested from deep in the amazon jungle. A Finnish company checked the electromagnetism with a tesla scope and the energies were so high they had to recalibrate their instrument. The preperation is called sparygic. The caps are called liquizons. The owner's girl friend happens to be Olivia Newton John. She takes 3 tsp. Daily.
Magnesium
★★★★★
Medications
★★★★★
Molybdenum
★★★★★
(Wall, Nj)
02/09/2012
Quick relief for grovers itch-Vicks vapo rub-lasts for awhile.
Multiple Remedies
★★★★★
1. Willow Balm pain cream buy it on amazon/the itch cream is less effective, but willow balm emliminates the itching for about 8 to 10 hrs and help heal my grovers.
2. Hydrogen peroxide wipe the effected area 2 times daily before treating it.
3. Uva and uvb exposer once a week for 10 mins.
4. Cotton shirts, no micro fibers.
5. Marshmellow Root/NAC/Querciten/Vit d 5000 to 10000/
6. No oral meds at all to many issues.
Multiple Remedies
★★★★☆
The posts and words of advice on this forum have been the only relief and help I have had, so thank you everyone. I want to post what has helped me. To me this seems very inflammatory. I have found that ibuprofen helps alot. If you space it out as needed and throughout the day, it can bring relief. Also another thing that I haven't seen posted too much is baking soda baths. About 1/2 to 1 cup in the tub and soak 30 minutes helps with the itching and it is not toxic.
At night I take an antihistamine like Benadryl which helps with the itching and for sleeping. For diet, I have added vitamin D and Omega 3 supplements daily, along vitamin C. I drink the juice of a lemon (diluted in water) and also cilantro a few times a week. One dermatologist told me not to exercise (?) but that sounded so depressing. I try to walk every day for a few miles. No one knows if this is an immune disorder, but I believe that staying as heathy as possible has to help. I pray for you all, that you all will back to health and well again very soon.
