The Health Benefits of Melatonin

When we had covid back in January we all used high dose Melatonin (thanks to Art who kept us informed about the protocol! ) I used it on everyone in the house - ages 9 to 83, based on weight, as Dr. Neel recommends. We took it 4 times a day.

My 83 year old mother in law with dementia did not know what the pills I gave her were, I just added them with her other meds and supplements. She was not symptomatic of covid, but we were using it to try and prevent covid since others in the home had it. (I think it worked, or at least helped! She never got sick, but did lose her sense of smell.) Anyway, her sleep/wake patterns were no different than when she wasn't taking round the clock melatonin. (She always takes it at night.)

It was hard to tell how it affected those of us who were actually sick. Sick people sleep more.

I take 15-20 mg of melatonin every night to help me with sleep (and it definitely improves my quality of sleep! )

Last summer, an hour after taking my melatonin dose, my daughter-in-law went into labor. I had an hour of sleep but woke up easily and drove an hour and 20 minutes to the birth center where she had the baby. I had no trouble driving and no trouble staying awake all night.

I had the opportunity to repeat the experiment last week. I had taken my 20 mg of melatonin and fallen asleep when my daughter went into labor. I woke up and stayed up the rest of the night with her and was able to see another grandchild born. (What a privilege! )

I cannot know how it affects others. But I can say that melatonin does not make it impossible for at least some people to stay awake after taking a significant dose. Certainly it would be wise to know how such a dose would affect you before driving a long way or using heavy equipment.

~Mama to Many~

I have a bit of migraine pain today, so hopefully that's not the melatonin but the stress. I'm probably a bit dehydrated, too, so need to take better care of myself.

Bless you. I am so sorry about the deep loss of your husband! 💔😢

Love,

~Mama to Many~

Thank you for the feedback on what I wrote about melatonin and longevity!

I am currently taking 132 mg of melatonin per night. I have taken higher dose melatonin for many years, but have increased my dose over the years as studies reveal more about the multiple positive health effects of melatonin in humans, animals and plant life.

To me, given the current scientific evidence for melatonin, it makes sense to me to try to counter the proven, age related decline of melatonin in the body. This is why I have consistently written about the health effects of melatonin on EC and elsewhere to share the value of melatonin in helping to maintain our health.

Regarding topical melatonin, I use it topically also. As an example of how I might use it topically, recently a friend mentioned that her ears itch occasionally and that in one ear she also hears an annoying "whooshing noise". She was already using a topical spray of melatonin on her scalp that I had made for her to improve hair growth as I recently wrote about on EC, but can't find to link to and I suggested she try spraying the melatonin in her ears to see if it improved the itching. She called me last night and told me that the spray had alleviated the itch in her ears better than anything she had previously used for that purpose. She also said that on her first application it had also alleviated the annoying whooshing noise in her ear.

I realize I talk incessantly about the many health effects of melatonin, but this is a health forum and melatonin is one of the most healthful single supplements that I am aware of.

Art

Although melatonin does many things to try and maintain homeostasis in our bodies, the decline of melatonin as we age doesn't allow melatonin to do this job as effectively as it did when we were younger.

So in thinking about this, I have considered that perhaps melatonin is actually a molecule mechanism built into the body to help prevent population overgrowth. An age related decline of melatonin would help to ensure that people do not live too long as living too long would quickly promote overpopulation of the planet and would result in insufficient food to feed the overpopulated planet. This idea brought forth the question of how the body would know that it needs to reduce melatonin production in order to help prevent overpopulation.

One way that I thought of is through calorie intake. When the body regularly receives a healthful caloric intake, that means there is plenty of food available and prospects are good for continued survival and the body responds to this by decreasing melatonin production at the rate we currently see. On the other hand, if caloric intake declines significantly, as in people are starving, melatonin levels decline even further by 20% in just one week or less as discussed in the following study :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402070/#:~:text=Short-term voluntary fasting by, % (26–28).

Here is a relevant quote from the study, keeping in mind that this study comes closest to the caloric restriction seen in starving, but not actually starving, as mild to moderate caloric restriction has been shown to have life extending effects :

' Short-term voluntary fasting by total rejection of food or with very limited intake of energy (<300 kcal per day) from 2 to 7 days reduces melatonin concentration in the blood by about 20% (26–28). '

A reduction of melatonin by 20% would significantly lessen the pro health and pro survival effects of melatonin and a very likely outcome from such a scenario would be shortened life expectancy due to increased inflammation, oxidative stress, increased cardiovascular disease, increased cancer rates and reduced total antioxidant capacity. This in turn would likely increase mortality at an earlier age, thereby reducing planet population growth until healthful caloric intake could be restored.

In contrast, increased melatonin intake to try and offset the natural age related decline of melatonin will significantly reduce the number one cause of death in the world, cardiovascular disease (CVD) as I previously discussed here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/melatonin-for-cardiovascular-disease.html

If you significantly reduce the number one cause of death in the world, CVD, it seems a reasonable expectation that people are likely to live longer. When you add the organ protective effects and bone protective effects of melatonin to that equation, increased life expectancy also seems a reasonable conclusion. Adding further to this, when you also take into consideration the multiple anticancer mechanisms of melatonin as discussed in the following link, it seems longer life expectancy due to melatonin is a reasonable idea :

https://cancerci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12935-021-01892-1#:~:text=Melatonin inhibits proliferation of cancer, signaling pathways in tumor cells.

Here is a relevant study quote regarding some of the ways that melatonin works against cancer :

' Melatonin inhibits proliferation of cancer cells through triggering cell cycle arrest and causes cell death by induction of apoptosis. Melatonin suppresses metastasis angiogenesis, and proliferation of cancer cells through affecting various signaling pathways in tumor cells. Melatonin also regulates autophagy pathway in cancer cell by affecting oxidative stress condition in tumor cells. These findings suggest that melatonin may increase the sensitivity of cancer cells to anti-cancer agents and may be a potential treatment for cancers either alone or in combination with other anti-cancer drugs. '

Studies that actually test if long term use of melatonin can extend life expectancy are lacking due to the length of such a study of many years, but given the above effects of melatonin, it seems illogical to think that melatonin would not extend overall life expectancy. So far melatonin has only been used in animal and insect studies in terms of life extension. The following study discusses melatonin and how it showed life extending effects in a small mammal :

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090622064807.htm

This is a relevant quote from this 2009 study :

' Under normal conditions, this animal shows the first signs of aging after reaching 12 months, mainly through the loss of circadian rhythm in its activities. By continuously administering melatonin, starting a little before 12 months, the appearance of these first signs was delayed by at least 3 months, which is a considerable period in relation to the lifespan of this shrew*. '

The following study discusses some of the known mechanisms of melatonin by which it can potentially extend life expectancy :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666555721000058#:~:text=The anti-aging effect of, or indirect oxidative stress damage.

Here is a relevant study quote describing some of the mechanisms by which melatonin may offer life extension :

' MT plays an anti-aging role by upregulating the expression of silent information regulator 1/Sirtuin 1 (SIRT1). SIRT1 is a histone deacetylase, and its physiological function is to remove acetyl groups, bind DNA strands together, and silence a target gene. In 2008, a study reported that MT increases the level of SIRT1 in a mouse model of accelerated aging (SAMP8 mice), demonstrating a positive correlation between MT and SIRT1 for the first time.9 This positive correlation was supported by two other studies.10, 11 MT enhances the deacetylation of SIRT1 substrates by upregulating SIRT1 expression and thus inhibits premature senescence '

Given all of the above information, it would appear that if you get extra melatonin through supplementation or natural means it can be healthful and possibly life extending, but if you continuously have low and or declining levels of melatonin, it may shorten your time to death. Overall, melatonin should make your stay here on earth a more healthful one!

Art

I am very sorry for the loss of your of your husband.

I am glad that you found benefit with melatonin and I hope it continues to help you through this difficult time. You need good sleep to allow your body to repair itself after so much damaging stress. Good health to you!

Art

https://www.griefshare.org/

Many people avoid talking about grief trying not to cause more pain. Then it can be difficult, not feeling like you have someone to talk to about what you are going through. First and foremost stop all negative chatter in your head . Write positive things to say to yourself. I did well and I am well. Every day I celebrate how good life is, and I remember the good things . I have suffered depression and all that comes with it so I say this to encourage you as you transition to the next beautiful stage of your life. HIs Blessings, Charity

Melatonin is not addictive in any way, shape, or form. It does not help everyone get to sleep, but for those that it does, it seems to work very well. In comparison to medical marijuana, when I was testing it as a sleep aid, I found that when I was done testing it, I definitely felt a "need" to take it again and in fact, it took some time for that urge to go away. After the test, I would be in bed, not quite asleep and I would be thinking that I should take some of the medical marijuana so I can get to sleep. I never have that issue with melatonin. If I forget a dose, I forget a dose and that is it.

It is not surprising that he had trouble falling asleep the first night off from melatonin, as the body needs a moment to adjust to the amount of melatonin it is getting at night.

As to whether your relative should stop melatonin, that would mainly depend on his age. If he is in his 40's or older, it may be useful to continue the melatonin to try and partially compensate for the age related decline of melatonin in people. If they are under 40, it may be fine to reserve melatonin for when the body can make good use of it, such as Covid-19 or worse.

I don't know what his other ailments are, so I can't really comment on that aspect of your post.

Art

She uses melatonin that dissolves in your mouth, so she decided to place melatonin at the site of the cavity with her tongue each night when she went to bed. She told me that within two months, the cavity was very significantly reduced in size, so she will continue to repeat this process until it is completely gone. She also told me she had an area of gum that was sore, so she told me she applied melatonin to the area of the sore gum, and she said the pain was gone in two days. This second aspect she is reporting does have studies to support that melatonin is healthful for the gums.

I was aware that melatonin is good for the health of the oral cavity, but I was not aware that it could reverse a relatively new cavity. When I looked at studies regarding melatonin and oral health, I found that melatonin is noted for use against or as a preventative for gum disease, but no mention as a cavity fighter. Here is a typical study discussing multiple health benefits of melatonin for the oral cavity, including bone regeneration, but teeth are not actually the same as bone :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1607551X16301012

Here are some relevant quotes from the study :

' Oral cavity is affected by a number of conditions such as periodontitis, mucositis, cancers, and cytotoxicity from various drugs or biomaterials. Research has suggested that melatonin is effective in treating the aforementioned pathologies. Furthermore, melatonin has been observed to enhance osseointegration and bone regeneration. '

' Topical administration of melatonin has a positive effect on periodontal health and osseointegration. Furthermore, melatonin is particularly effective in improving the periodontal parameters of diabetic patients with periodontitis. Melatonin exerts a regenerative effect on periodontal bone and may be incorporated into of periodontal scaffolds. The cytotoxic effect of various drugs and dental materials may be countered by the antioxidant properties of melatonin. Topical administration of melatonin promotes the healing of tooth extraction sockets and may also impede the progression of oral cancer. '

As you can see from this study, melatonin offers many benefits to help maintain oral health, but the repair of new cavities is a new one to me.

Art

Function

One function of the pineal gland is to produce melatonin. Melatonin has various functions in the central nervous system, the most important of which is to help modulate sleep patterns. Melatonin production is stimulated by darkness and inhibited by light.[23][24] Light sensitive nerve cells in the retina detect light and send this signal to the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), synchronizing the SCN to the day-night cycle. Nerve fibers then relay the daylight information from the SCN to the paraventricular nuclei (PVN), then to the spinal cord and via the sympathetic system to superior cervical ganglia (SCG), and from there into the pineal gland.

The compound pinoline is also claimed to be produced in the pineal gland; it is one of the beta-carbolines.[25] This claim is subject to some controversy.[citation needed]

Regulation of the pituitary gland

Studies on rodents suggest that the pineal gland influences the pituitary gland's secretion of the sex hormones, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and luteinizing hormone (LH). Pinealectomy performed on rodents produced no change in pituitary weight, but caused an increase in the concentration of FSH and LH within the gland.[26] Administration of melatonin did not return the concentrations of FSH to normal levels, suggesting that the pineal gland influences pituitary gland secretion of FSH and LH through an undescribed transmitting molecule.[26]

The pineal gland contains receptors for the regulatory neuropeptide, endothelin-1, [27] which, when injected in picomolar quantities into the lateral cerebral ventricle, causes a calcium-mediated increase in pineal glucose metabolism.[28]

Regulation of bone metabolism

Studies in mice suggest that the pineal-derived melatonin regulates new bone deposition. Pineal-derived melatonin mediates its action on the bone cells through MT2 receptors. This pathway could be a potential new target for osteoporosis treatment as the study shows the curative effect of oral melatonin treatment in a postmenopausal osteoporosis mouse model.[29]

Pineal gland - Wikipedia

Here is a link to the study :

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35790450/

Here is a relevant quote from the abstract :

>>> ' Despite the potential benefits of antioxidants and melatonin, we did not find improvements in sleep time or quality, cellular health or BP in participants consuming MTC for 30 days, though BM decreased in capsule groups. ' <<<

This study implies that if you plan to get your melatonin and its known health benefits from cherries, that will not likely happen. Even if you are just looking for better sleep, the result is still likely to be no benefit.

Art

Because of the serious nature of your wife's condition (kidney transplant & potentially related issues), you should be talking to her transplant specialist about the use of melatonin and here are a few studies that suggest that melatonin may be beneficial, which you can show to her doctor to give a little more information on the potential utility of melatonin in kidney transplant. I am not a doctor and this is well beyond the scope of information that you should be looking for on a forum that specializes in home remedies. Here are a few relevant links that her doctor can consider as to whether melatonin will be useful for her specific case. :

https://joe.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/joe/229/3/R129.xml

https://www.scielo.br/j/ramb/a/JZYNnhjCVYYNtFrtMxZ6kqK/?lang=en

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7073605/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31446153/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30671880/

Best wishes to the both of you!

Art

Perhaps now is a good time to start a petition in your country to legalize it for over-the-counter use.

Yes, melatonin has blood thinning and anticlotting effects, so getting your doctor's approval if you are already on a blood thinner makes safe sense. Too much blood thinning is bad and can be dangerous. Some common supplements like vitamin E and Serrapeptase can have blood thinning effects also, so anyone who is already on a blood thinner should seek their doctor's advice if adding a supplement with blood thinning qualities.

Art

https://www.cell.com/heliyon/fulltext/S2405-8440(24)00297-4?_returnURL=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2405844024002974?showall=true

Here is a relevant quote from the review :

While melatonin was initially understood to only regulate circadian rhythms, recent studies indicate that it has a far-reaching effect on various organs and physiological systems, such as immunity, cardiovascular function, antioxidant defense, and lipid hemostasis. As a potent antioxidant, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, and immunoregulatory agent, multiple therapeutic applications have been proposed for melatonin.

While this sounds great, not everything is yet known about all of the health benefits that melatonin provides to humans, animals and plant life and that means that melatonin can do even more than this review highlights. I'm still at 132 mg of melatonin per day and I am bolstering this with regular use of melatonin lotion. The natural age related decline of melatonin in people can not be good for our long term health based on the thousands of studies illustrating how melatonin helps maintain our health.

Art

Yes, I think when you are talking about major health conditions, 2 to 3 mg of melatonin may be better than no melatonin, but generally I would think that pharmacological dosing would be needed for maximum benefit.

If you hadn't said he is opposed to alternatives, I would make suggestions for diabetes and the heart, but that sounds like it would be a waste of time with him.

Art

I'm from a city down the coast from you, Charleston. I really miss the ocean. It was easier to get enough sea salt there.

It appears that in your situation, there are paradoxes to negotiate. I've read that some people do have increased insomnia, anxiety, and other side effects from melatonin supplementation. It's been suggested that they may try a dosage as low as. 1-.3 mgs. I also have low cortisol, and insomnia from early childhood. Although I have tried so many substances for this; herbs, amino acids, exercise, and even medications; my best results have been from combining a low dose b-complex with a sublingual b12. There can be paradoxical reactions to them also, as some can relax and or stimulate the system. I suggest trying the b-complex made from foods. (unfortunately it's expensive) It may be only needed in smaller amounts. Try 1/2 tablet in the morning. ( I have it with an empty stomach, but it may be easier with food).

Also, try methylcobalamin sublinguals, (active-b12); because it enables the other b's to operate. A 1000 mcg. Tablet can be divided with a pill cutter into 4 wedges. It may be that only 250 mcgs. Is needed daily for sensitve individuals. I have also found that folate has been very helpful with depression, But it must be measured carefully according individual needs. I recommend methylfolate. It comes in 800 mcg. Tablets that can also be subdivided.

While there is the RDA of folate in supplements, some people with atypical depression have responded very well to extra folate. It can have mild stimulant properties for some people, so I suggest trying small amounts in the morning. (It is also good for sensitive gums and canker sores when dissolved in the mouth). I have found these supplements to also lower many types of inflammation that can deplete cortisol.

I will be trying melatonin soon because this author (age 77) has the retinas of a young man:

https://www.secondopinionnewsletter.com/Health-Alert-Archive/View-Archive/15303/Single-Supplement-Prevents-and-Reverses-Macular-Degeneration.htm

Try this combo for better sleep :

https://www.earthclinic.com/art-solbrig-insomnia-protocol.html

Art

This is generally considered a problem applying to all supplements, but I have no practical means to discern which supplements might be the best of the bunch. On the web, there are plenty of conversations discussing where supplement manufacturers get their supplement materials from with the general consensus suggesting that the majority of supplements originate in China and may have high toxicant levels. I personally am not hyper focused on that aspect because I have no practical means to test that idea.

I base my thinking regarding melatonin on scientific studies in animals and humans, none of which delve into potential toxins that may or may not be in the tested products. They mainly discuss what benefits the melatonin they are testing has on humans, animals and plants. I base my decisions on whether I use melatonin or not on these studies.

If you go the other way and assume that supplements are tainted based on other data, I guess you just don't use any supplements at all. Even the newer phytomelatonin could be a problem in this sense. My personal choice is to use melatonin for its scientifically proven health effects in humans. I have been taking melatonin at high dose for well over a decade and have consistently increased my dose through the years as more studies confirmed benefit for humans. Before I started using melatonin lotion, I was taking 132 mg of melatonin orally each day and once went as high as 180 mg/day. With my current use of melatonin lotion, my dose is very likely at an all time high. When should I expect those toxic effects to kick in? I wrote about how to make melatonin lotion here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/topical-melatonin-pain-relief-success-stories.html

I wrote about more effects of melatonin lotion here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/topical-melatonin-advantages-pain-management-guide.html

I hope that explains my thinking on the subject.

Art

Wow, it's been a minute since you've been around! Glad to see you back posting again!

I wrote about how melatonin can be very useful for osteopenia and osteoporosis here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/melatonin-for-osteoporosis.html

Definitely a nice alternative to the prescribed bisphosphonates like Fosamax.

Art

Thank you for saying so!

I have not seen a ready made product of this nature.

The simplest way is to dissolve the melatonin is gin. The alcohol content in the gin will evaporate rapidly after application and the juniper berry content has anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects also. This could potentially be used under your normal face moisturizer.

Art

Sorry to hear about your present condition and hopefully you will be able to find the best remedies to get well soon. If you need ideas, EC is a good place to find those and the remedy inventory is quite large now!

Oscar and Ted have been unavailable for years now, but Bill and Deirdre are still here!

Best wishes, Timh!

Art

More information about what symptoms you are experiencing and the doses of what you are taking would be helpful information.

Regarding melatonin, if you can tolerate more than 30 mg, that would be helpful. Dr. Shallenberger gives all of his patients 180 mg per night or more for more serious conditions such as stage 4 cancer. Don't take melatonin during the day. If you make a decision to add more melatonin, do it slowly.

For sleep, decide what time you want to go to bed. As an example, if you want to got to bed at 11:00pm, take one third of your melatonin dose at 9:00 pm, one third of your dose at 10:00pm and the last third of your dose at 11:00 pm. I call this melatonin 123 and it gives a slower release of melatonin that tries to mimic melatonin release from the pineal gland and sometimes is a bit more effective for sleep.

I wrote about the use of melatonin for stroke here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/melatonin-for-stroke-recovery-and-prevention.html

For constipation, magnesium in the form of magnesium citrate at the max label dose may help. Take this or at least part of it with your second melatonin dose and take your zinc at that same time as it also helps with sleep. It helps with the melatonin for sleep. I wrote about these 3 for sleep here :

https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/art-solbrig-insomnia-protocol.html

Adding vitamin D in the morning may be helpful as a deterrent for a second stroke as discussed here :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5376887/#:~:text=Vitamin D supplementation in post, outcome after stroke [9].

Here is a relevant study quote :

' Vitamin D supplementation in post stroke patients is helpful in prevention of recurrent stroke and is suggested to reduce neurological, psychological and musculoskeletal disorders [8]. It also reduces morbidity, mortality and improves functional outcome after stroke [9]. '

Aiming for the upper half of the reference range could be helpful. The reference range is 30 - 100 ng/ml for 25 OH d.

Once you have a stroke, even a TIA, the chance for another stroke increases significantly so you still have to keep preventatives in mind, not just treatments.

The berberine is helpful, but that would be at 1500 mg/day in 3 divided doses of 500 mg at breakfast lunch and dinner.

Another supplement that can be helpful is Vinpocetine at 30 mg/day as discussed here :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045535/#:~:text=In controlled human studies, VPN, in several countries in Europe.

Here is a relevant quote :

' In controlled human studies, VPN increases cerebral perfusion and oxygen extraction and prevents the worsening of attention in patients with multiple cerebral infarcts so; VPN has been used to treat stroke in several countries in Europe. '

CoQ10 is also good at higher dose and in the more preferable form of Ubiquinol such as this :

https://www.amazon.com/Liposomal-Absorption-Supplement-Antioxidant-Production/dp/B0BXXCDFJ5/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2ZSQF7AH2EHEE&keywords=liposomal+coq10+800mg+ubiquinol+softgel&qid=1688862731&sprefix=ubiquinol+800,aps,182&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Get earlier morning sun exposure such as 20 minutes or more each morning.

It takes time to recover from a stroke and I would think in terms of a year or more, but these steps may also help ward off another stroke or TIA and that is very important.

Art

I found 10 mg capsules on Ebay UK :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Melatonin-by-Puritans-Pride-Nighttime-Sleep-Aid-Melatonin-10mg-120-Ct-2/174484401347?epid=21027050997&hash=item28a014acc3:g:xyEAAOSw0S1fjAZe

You may have missed my post about Xlear Nasal Spray for Covid-19, but these are the two main components I plan to use if I get Covid-19. Here is a link to that post :

https://www.earthclinic.com/xlear-for-covid-recovery.html

Here is a link to the product on Amazon UK :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Xlear-Sinus-Saline-Nasal-Xylitol/dp/B000M4W2E6/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=xlear+nasal+spray&qid=1612832817&sr=8-3

If you can, get her started on the spray if you can get it from a local drug store. The post that I linked to above shows how they used the Xlear Nasal Spray, how often and what effects it had on the small group of patients.

Good luck to you and your friend!

Art

Thank you for responding back and I appreciate your input very much! Since my last post what I have done for the next 2 nights was stay at 2mg of melatonin and even though for both those nights I got awake in the middle of the night, I fell back to sleep for each of those nights for about another 2. 5 hours approx so I guess that is a good sign. Maybe my body had to get used to it if that is possible, I don't know. Last night I upped it to 3mg and slept striaght thru for a total of about 6. 5 hours. I'm atleast happy with this because I know for years that I have only been averaging about 5-6 hours of sleep per night. So "maybe" I am on the right path with the melatonin. Time will tell.

As far as you mentioning the B-12 and methylfolate, I have tried both of those in the past and both never seemed to do me any good. I think I have tried most every supplement under the sun LOL (and then some.. Haha) I had my B-12 levels checked awhile back and they were fine.. Actually very good but at that time I was taking B-12 even though it really didn't help me. As a matter of fact I have read that some people that are hypoadrenal can't handle the extra B-12. Whether or not that is true I don't know, but maybe it was true for me. I seem to even feel more lethargic which doesn't help my depression even when I do Brewers Yeast. Maybe it is a particular B that isn't agreeing with me. I "might" have been taking too much Pantethine. I tried it because many others and other websites mention it is good for hypoadrenal but quite frankly ever since I stopped taking it, I seem to be not as fatigued and not as achey in my joints.

The site that I have frequented often which I think has a lot of good information is......says that too much intake of B-5, people can get severe fatigue and joint pain. Maybe this applies to me because ever since I stopped it I an not as fatigued nor as achey in my joints. The site actually mentions B-1 thiamine good for people that are hypoadrenal. It says that extra thiamine can help raise sodium, which I know us later stage AF'ers deal with. He also mentions choline can help with that also. Funny how when I did the Braverman test online awhile back I was also Acetylcholine deficent as well as being Dopamine deficient. So I am also starting to take CDP-Choline as well as some lecithin granules which I know Ted is very high on taking. I noticed you said you are still low cortisol. Have you tried extra thiamine? I just started yesterday taking Allithiamine. Apparently it is similar to Befotiamine that it is fat soluble, but I have read that Allithiamine may work better on the CNS where as Benfo works more periphally. Who knows but I am giving it a whirl and maybe it can atleast help to some degree with my atypical depression. The site also mentions tin being good for hypodrenal and I know Ted has mentioned it too and good for depression that can go along with it. So I am going to try that too. I just ordered some stannous chloride from a chemical supply company so I'll see how that works for me too when it arrives.

One other thing I wanted to mention, and maybe there is some merit to this. I can't remember which book I read this from.. It might have been Wilson's book on Adrenal Fatigue, in that having dental work done can stress the adrenals. I can look back and remember that it was around the time I had some dental work done that I started feeling a lot worse. Maybe it was that, that just sent my low adrenals over the edge.. Then on top of that I burned them out more by working out at the gym too strenuously. Live and learn. Recently I have read that weight lifting (not to the point of exaustion) can actually raise cortisol but anything aerobic lowers cortisol. So I'm going to just do the weights but ditch the running on the treadmill.

I'm also gonna start on some Systemic Proteolytic Enzymes. Certainly can't hurt cause I have read some theories out there that depression can stem from too much inflammation in the body. I've started back up taking some curcumin and have added some boswellia which is also good for inflammation. I'll see how this goes too LOL

Sorry for the long post, but thanks again for your input Connie. I'll keep trudging on :)

Maybe the moderator reading this can also post this in the adrenal fatigue and depression sections, since this post also applies to those conditions. Me being new here I don't know if I should be copying and pasting this in both of those sections.

Randy

Your posts are so interesting and educational. You mentioned using melatonin topically for hair and I believe also skin. How would a lay person/non-chemist make this, or is there an existing product you like? Would such a formula be safe on the face and around the eyes? Many thanks!

He sleeps well now so the doctor said he should stop for now, so that the body doesn't start relying ONLY on the pills to fall asleep.

The first night off of it, he was not able to fall asleep all night. But now he does.

1. Is Melatonin for sleep addictive?

2. Being that he is not in favor of alternative medicine, I was hoping the little he was taking would help with other ailments. But the dosage was so low, it probably didn't do much for other things.

What are your thoughts on this?

This one ships to the UK:

https://www.pureformulas.com/

You can get melatonin by prescription in the UK and any dose is better than no dose. If your Dr. will write a script for each of you for 5 mg capsules for sleep, that amount may hold you over until your order arrives.

Art